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Author Topic: The big "IF" question...  (Read 974 times)

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Offline s2srea

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The big "IF" question...
« on: September 13, 2011, 04:52:12 PM »
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  • (This is for the sake of discussion. Hernias and red faces not welcome, please.)

    So, as to the possibility of SSPX somehow being able to 'come back' to a fully recognized status within the VII Church, what then? What does this mean not only for SSPX, but especially for Independents and Sede's alike?  

    If independents (non-sede) exist for the protection of the faith, distributing sacraments, and protecting morals, and sedevecantism proposes to do the same, whilst adhering to a matter of opinion,  and assuming for the sake of discussion, that Rome intends in her agreement with the SSPX that the Fraternity would be left alone in the matters of sacraments (including the mass and Holy Orders), morals, and doctrine, would epikea still apply?

    I know the immediate response will be a rejection of this. But I'd like to hear everyone's input.


    Offline Stephen Francis

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    The big "IF" question...
    « Reply #1 on: September 29, 2011, 09:43:47 PM »
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  • I personally don't believe that a 'reconciliation' is possible, because as it stands right now, the Society would have to agree with Ratzinger's position on Jєωs and other infidels (among other things). If the Society were to officially unite with the Conciliar organization, they would be skirting dangerously close to heresy (and blasphemy; they'd be making Our Lord a liar when He said, "Unless you believe that I AM HE, ye shall perish in your sins" TO THE JєωS.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar


    Offline Sigismund

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    The big "IF" question...
    « Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 09:47:03 PM »
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  • It seems to me that such a reconciliation, if it happens, would involve only the SSPX itself.  Independent groups or priests would have to seek their on accommodation with th4e Rome if they chose to.  I can't imagine why sede's would care a t all, except to perhaps strengthen the position that some of the m hold that the SSPX isn't really traditional.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Gregory I

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    The big "IF" question...
    « Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 10:42:46 PM »
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  • I will congratulate them for finally embracing the logical conclusion and smugly sit back and snicker as half their attendees fill the sede chapels... :fryingpan:
    'Take care not to resemble the multitude whose knowledge of God's will only condemns them to more severe punishment.'

    -St. John of Avila

    Offline CathMomof7

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    The big "IF" question...
    « Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 11:55:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea
    (This is for the sake of discussion. Hernias and red faces not welcome, please.)

    So, as to the possibility of SSPX somehow being able to 'come back' to a fully recognized status within the VII Church, what then? What does this mean not only for SSPX, but especially for Independents and Sede's alike?  

    If independents (non-sede) exist for the protection of the faith, distributing sacraments, and protecting morals, and sedevecantism proposes to do the same, whilst adhering to a matter of opinion,  and assuming for the sake of discussion, that Rome intends in her agreement with the SSPX that the Fraternity would be left alone in the matters of sacraments (including the mass and Holy Orders), morals, and doctrine, would epikea still apply?

    I know the immediate response will be a rejection of this. But I'd like to hear everyone's input.


    If, and this is a very big if, SSPX reconciles, nothing will change for the sedes except they will need to find larger chapels.

    Ratzinger has a twisted plan, I am sure of it.  If he can "regularize" SSPX, then he can limit what they do.  He reforms the liturgy by smooshing the old and the new together.  In 30 years, the Tridentine Mass is considered obsolete and archaic.

    The "visible" Church will be this new "rite" and those few who remain in sede and independent chapels will be marginalized and ostracized.  No one will give them a second thought.

    The best thing that could happen would be for trads of all opinions to truly find some way to work better together.  The devil is using this bickering between SSPXs and sedes to keep the Church divided.  JMO.


    Offline Sedevacantist MelFan

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    The big "IF" question...
    « Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 12:09:28 AM »
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  • Yes, I do think that ratzinger wants to now get the Tradtionalists back into the conciliar church.
    These developments between sspx and ratzinger's conciliar sect will, I think, lead many to compromise.
    But then perhaps more people will realize that Sedevacantism is true.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    The big "IF" question...
    « Reply #6 on: September 30, 2011, 12:20:44 AM »
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  • For all practical purposes they're back in the orbit of the current Vatican already.  That happened when they begged to have the excommunications lifted.  Will they submit to be re-excommunicated?  It seems highly unlikely.  Since that's the case the issue of succession is the future and that will be determined by some arrangement down the line.  In 10 or 20 years there will be a definitive agreement (and a definitive collapse of Catholic traditionalism outside of a small remnant)