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Author Topic: Tell me why Indulters aren't cowards and or ignorant  (Read 6083 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Tell me why Indulters aren't cowards and or ignorant
« on: April 27, 2025, 10:13:44 AM »
It is pretty basic that the Faith comes first. Obedience to God, obedience to the Faith, comes first, before obedience to men, even Popes and cardinals. We are never required to put our Faith in jeopardy. And in fact, we are FORBIDDEN to do so. To place oneself in a position where your Faith is assaulted, without good cause, is actually SINFUL in itself.

Those are the foundational principles of the Traditional movement. That is why I say, with all seriousness, that Indulters are not Trad. They don't agree with the Traditional Movement which started on Day One after the rollout of the New Mass and other rotten fruits of Vatican II.

Not to mention that any common sense Trad knows that the Crisis is not just about the Mass. It's about the entire Catholic Faith. The Mass changed after Vatican II because the Faith was changed into a new religion. The Mass is indeed the cornerstone of our religion. A new religion requires a new "mass".

So if you don't know something SO BASIC as "Faith is above obedience", "We must obey God rather than men", or "this new religion doesn't resemble the timeless Catholic Faith at all", then you are either A) ignorant or B) of low intelligence, or C) some combination of A & B.

As for Indulters being cowardly --

Here's the thing. I'm no hero. I don't know if I would be able to withstand torture. I'm sure that, like other human beings, I would need constant prayer and strength from God to endure such. I don't put myself forward as any kind of superhuman hero or saint.

BUT, that having been said, we haven't faced any torture or real suffering from the Conciliar authorities for adhering faithfully to Tradition. What are we expected to endure, as (true) Trads? Words. Lots of bad words. They call us disobedient, schismatic, radical, extreme and other WORDS. That's it. End of list!

And Indulters can't endure that! What a joke! If you can't endure a few mean words, how are you supposed to fight the World 24/7, which is CLEARLY completely against Christ and even His natural order of Creation right now. Protip: you can't. Which is why MOST Indulters are also horribly ignorant and worldly in other areas. They are generally cowards. When you are a coward, you flee conflict. You desire to go with the flow, to keep your head down, to avoid trouble. They are habitually disinclined and unable to inconvenience themselves in the slightest for God and His truth.

Offline St Giles

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Re: Tell me why Indulters aren't cowards and or ignorant
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2025, 10:59:00 AM »
 What are we expected to endure, as (true) Trads? Words. Lots of bad words. They call us disobedient, schismatic, radical, extreme and other WORDS. That's it. End of list!

And Indulters can't endure that! What a joke! If you can't endure a few mean words, how are you supposed to fight the World 24/7, which is CLEARLY completely against Christ and even His natural order of Creation right now. Protip: you can't. Which is why MOST Indulters are also horribly ignorant and worldly in other areas. They are generally cowards. When you are a coward, you flee conflict. You desire to go with the flow, to keep your head down, to avoid trouble. They are habitually disinclined and unable to inconvenience themselves in the slightest for God and His truth.
We also endure little to no community. That's just way too much for many/most, and the rest of us do suffer greatly for it. People go protestant just for the friendship and community.


Offline Matthew

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Re: Tell me why Indulters aren't cowards and or ignorant
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2025, 11:55:14 AM »
I'll repeat what I said years ago:

Being able to resist "human respect" (going against the world, your friends, enduring bad words said against you, etc.)
does NOT guarantee you will successfully endure torture for the Faith.

BUT, would it be logical to say that if you can't even withstand bad words, there is NO WAY you will be able to endure actual physical torture for the Faith?

It's an a fortiori argument.

If you're losing to the "words" or "names" right now, how could you EVER endure the "sticks & stones"?

He who can do the greater, can do the lesser.
But he that can't do the lesser, certainly can't do the greater.

If I can lift 100 lbs, I can certainly lift 10 lbs.
If I can lift 10 lbs, MAYBE I can lift 100 lbs.
BUT if I can't even lift 10 lbs, there is no way I can lift 100 lbs.

I think we can all agree:
enduring torture for the faith > resisting human respect

So all those resisting today, going against human respect, at least have a MAYBE on whether they will persevere, whether they could endure real persecution.
Meanwhile, those who have capitulated at mere names and threats, have a solid "NO".

Re: Tell me why Indulters aren't cowards and or ignorant
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2025, 12:13:20 PM »
I'll tell you why, because there are many Catholics from all walks of life from all over the world who are just finding
their way out of the novus ordo, who might have just discovered the Latin Mass, who are still trying to grasp 
what the hell is going on. They vary in terms of curiosity, which takes a measure of courage but also grace, which enables discernment. Then if they make it entirely out of the indult they encounter another field of landmines
with all of the factions that make up R&R and sedevacantism, most of whom warn to avoid one another.
Even a great man like Bp Williamson, who was in the very middle of the maelstrom and had the benefit of being
the protege of Archbishop Lefebvre not only believed that the new mass offered grace but could generate miracles.
Some attending FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, SSPX might find the compromises made by their leadership to be
distasteful but they know that without the sacrament they offer they run a greater risk of being damned.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
Re: Tell me why Indulters aren't cowards and or ignorant
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2025, 02:14:55 PM »
I'll tell you why, because there are many Catholics from all walks of life from all over the world who are just finding
their way out of the novus ordo, who might have just discovered the Latin Mass, who are still trying to grasp
what the hell is going on. They vary in terms of curiosity, which takes a measure of courage but also grace, which enables discernment. Then if they make it entirely out of the indult they encounter another field of landmines
with all of the factions that make up R&R and sedevacantism, most of whom warn to avoid one another.

So perhaps one answer to my question would be: it depends on whether you're on the way up (towards Tradition) or on the way down (towards Conciliarism, Modernism, indifferentism, and other heresies and errors).

Someone who went to the Novus Ordo this week, and today finds himself at an Indult "Latin Mass", is on a good trajectory.

Meanwhile, someone who was associated with +ABL last week (Resistance, or SSPX back in the day) and today is attending the Indult, is on the way to apostasy. His trajectory is downwards, towards MORE acceptance by the world, MORE liberal views, etc.