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Offline CM

(No subject)
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2009, 01:49:49 AM »
Quote from: Caminus
Quote from: Catholic Martyr
It's a heresy Caminus.  I am not presuming to speak for God, but I know He is not pleased with someone who knowingly holds to a heresy that is in contradiction to formal dogmas.


No it's not, CM.  Was God pleased with the Saints who also held this doctrine?  Before or after Trent it matters not since the the necessity of baptism was very well known at all times.  How could they be Saints when they objectively sinned against the Faith and as such objectively had no Faith at all?  Are not the canonizations of the Church infallible?


No they are not.

Quote from: Caminus
Or are they simply useless since She canonizes people that objectively lead others to hell?


They are not useless either.  The Church marks out lifestyles for imitation, however anybody who takes a saints doctrine over the decrees of Holy Mother Church, if these decrees do not admit it, is perverting the rule of faith.

Quote from: Caminus
Or at very least aren't all that holy and thus are really just bad or mediocre examples.  Same goes for the Doctors of the Church.


Non sequitur.  They may have had subjective excuses for their objective offense (those who taught it after Vienne, Florence or Trent).  And they have been exonerated in the external forum by their canonization.

Quote from: Caminus
Think man, THINK.


I have Caminus, I have.

(No subject)
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2009, 02:21:01 AM »
LOL.  Why do you keep referring to yourself as if you are some kind of authority?

Quote
Is the pope infallible in issuing a decree of canonization? Most theologians answer in the affirmative. It is the opinion of St. Antoninus, Melchior Cano, Suarez, Bellarmine, Bañez, Vasquez, and, among the canonists, of Gonzales Tellez, Fagnanus, Schmalzgrüber, Barbosa, Reiffenstül, Covarruvias (Variar. resol., I, x, no 13), Albitius (De Inconstantiâ in fide, xi, no 205), Petra (Comm. in Const. Apost., I, in notes to Const. I, Alex., III, no 17 sqq.), Joannes a S. Thomâ (on II-II, Q. I, disp. 9, a. 2), Silvester (Summa, s.v. Canonizatio), Del Bene (De Officio Inquisit. II, dub. 253), and many others. In Quodlib. IX, a. 16, St. Thomas says: "Since the honour we pay the saints is in a certain sense a profession of faith, i.e., a belief in the glory of the Saints [quâ sanctorum gloriam credimus] we must piously believe that in this matter also the judgment of the Church is not liable to error." These words of St. Thomas, as is evident from the authorities just cited, all favouring a positive infallibility, have been interpreted by his school in favour of papal infallibility in the matter of canonization, and this interpretation is supported by several other passages in the same Quodlibet. This infallibility, however according to the holy doctor, is only a point of pious belief. Theologians generally agree as to the fact of papal infallibility in this matter of canonization, but disagree as to the quality of certitude due to a papal decree in such matter. In the opinion of some it is of faith (Arriaga, De fide, disp. 9, p. 5, no 27); others hold that to refuse assent to such a judgment of the Holy See would be both impious and rash, as Francisco Suárez (De fide, disp. 5 p. 8, no 8); many more (and this is the general view) hold such a pronouncement to be theologically certain, not being of Divine Faith as its purport has not been immediately revealed, nor of ecclesiastical Faith as having thus far not been defined by the Church.




(No subject)
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2009, 02:41:59 AM »
Caminus, simply quote yourself as authority as well. ;)

(No subject)
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2009, 02:45:30 AM »
Yeah, I could do that.  I love how he just quotes himself as a matter of fact.  What a strange little man.

Offline CM

(No subject)
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2009, 03:09:55 AM »
Quote from: Caminus
LOL.  Why do you keep referring to yourself as if you are some kind of authority?


I'm not doing anything of the sort.  I am placing a link to the information I have already gathered on the matter.  The information is Magisterial Catholic teaching, and your quotes from theologians do not carry the same weight.