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Author Topic: “The Holy Father will have much to suffer“  (Read 5123 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Offline josefamenendez

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Re: “The Holy Father will have much to suffer“
« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2023, 12:47:04 PM »
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  • Ratzinger is a heretic for countless things he said, wrote and did BEFORE he was ever pope, which he never publicly abjured. 
    1) He authored the Vatican lie “revealing” the 3rd secret of Fatima. 
    2). Said the new mass and gave communion in the hand countless times. 
    3) Was JP2’s right hand man as JP2 prayed with heretics and had the Assisi abomination in 1986.
    4) Prayed with rabbis and visited synogogues, putting Catholicism as 2nd fiddle to Joos. 
    5). Pushed the “subsists in” heresy to increase heretical ecuмenism. 
    6).  Was head of Doctrine as JP2 pushed the “Theology of the body” heresies.
    7).  Was a theologian who attended V2 and never apologized for any of such heresies. 
    8). He was chief negotiator with +ABL and tried to prevent the 88 consecrations from ever happening.  He’s hated the sspx from day 1.
    9).  Consecrated a bishop in 77; we don’t even know if he was a bishop. 
    10).  Created the abominable World Youth Days and took part in countless heresies being taught, new mass blasphemies and untold perversions. 

    The list goes on and on.  He never apologized for any of the above.  He’s a heretic to the nth degree. 
    http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/RazResArt.pdf


    Ratzinger also had a bizarre if not heretical take on the Resurrection , ambiguously at times denying it was truly a physical event. I think B Sandborn does well in dissecting it


    Offline Angelus

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    Re: “The Holy Father will have much to suffer“
    « Reply #62 on: September 26, 2023, 01:11:16 PM »
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  • http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/RazResArt.pdf


    Ratzinger also had a bizarre if not heretical take on the Resurrection , ambiguously at times denying it was truly a physical event. I think B Sandborn does well in dissecting it

    In the passage quoted by Sanborn, Ratzinger is distinguishing between the merely human "resurrection" of Lazarus, who continued to walk around the earth in his normal human body for many years vs. the glorified body exhibited the the risen Christ, which could pass through walls and doors. Ratzinger is saying that the "glorified body" is far more supernatural than what happened with Lazarus. 

    He was not denying the dogma of the Resurrection of the Body. He was explaining that what is meant by that dogma is something different from what many people might think.


    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: “The Holy Father will have much to suffer“
    « Reply #63 on: September 26, 2023, 02:14:18 PM »
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  • Not exactly. Ratzinger stated St Lukke was "exaggerating" by having Christ eat the fish. I'd say that might be a bit of a denial of the flesh.

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: “The Holy Father will have much to suffer“
    « Reply #64 on: September 26, 2023, 02:22:58 PM »
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  • Here is what he (Ratzinger)has said concerning the Resurrection of 1 0 Christ:
    • It is not the resuscitation of a corpse.
    • It is an evolutionary leap into a new dimension of human existence.
    • It is not a historical event like the birth of Christ or His crucifixion.
    • It is outside of space and time, i.e., it did not happen in a specific place and at a specific time, and is something which cannot be sensed by the senses.4
    • Our Lord’s eating of the fish was an exaggeration of St. Luke, in which he contradicts himself. • The appearance of Christ to St. Paul was “light.”
    • The appearances of Christ to the other disciples are “real encounters with the living one who is now embodied in a new way.”
    • The witnesses to the Resurrection of Christ “experienced a real encounter, coming to them from outside, with something entirely new and unforeseen, namely the selfrevelation and verbal communication of the risen Christ.” (p. 275)

    "The well known eminent theologian and ardent antiModernist Father Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P., writing nearly a hundred years ago, said this: “Among the modernists, E. Le Roy [an ardent disciple of Henri Bergson, a famous evolutionist] proposed a similar theory, for he denied the ‘reanimation of the corpse’ as impossible, and taught that Christ rose in a certain sense, inasmuch as He did not cease to act after His death, and to the extent that His soul in another life retained a certain virtual matter.” This description sounds remarkably close to what Ratzinger says.


    Offline Angelus

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    Re: “The Holy Father will have much to suffer“
    « Reply #65 on: September 26, 2023, 03:13:44 PM »
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  • Not exactly. Ratzinger stated St Lukke was "exaggerating" by having Christ eat the fish. I'd say that might be a bit of a denial of the flesh.

    Ratzinger did not say that St. Luke was "exaggerating." He said that "most exegetes" say that St. Luke was exaggerating. Ratzinger was disagreeing with those "exegetes." Ratzinger did not think that St. Luke was "contradicting his own narrative." Those other exegetes are the ones who imply the contradiction with their wrong-headed interpretation of Luke.

    Ratzinger is actually disagreeing with the "exegetes" that Sanborn claims Ratzinger agrees with. Here is the quote from Ratzinger's Jesus of Nazareth within its context:


    Quote
    What is radically new about the “theophany” of the risen Lord is that Jesus is truly man: he suffered and died as a man and now lives anew in the dimension of the living God. He appears now as true man and yet as coming from God—as being God himself. So two qualifications are important. On the one hand, Jesus has not returned to the empirical existence tha is subject to the law of death, but he lives anew in fellowship with God, permanently beyond the reach of death. On the other hand, it is important that the encounters with the risen Lord are not just interior events or mystical experiences—they are real encounters with the living one who is now embodied in a new way and remains embodied. Luke emphasizes this very strongly: Jesus is not, as the disciples initially feared, a “ghost” or a “spirit”: he has “flesh and bones” (Lk 24:36-43).

    What a ghost is, what is meant by the apparition of the “spirit” as opposed to the apparition of the risen Lord, can best be seen in the bibilcal account of the medium of Endor, who at Saul’s behest conjures up the spirit of Samuel from the underworld (cf. 1 Sam 28:7-19). The “spirit” that she calls forth is a dead man dwelling among the shadows in the underworld, who from time to time can be summoned forth, only to return to the realm of the dead.

    Jesus, however, does not come from the realm of the dead, which he has definitively left behind: on the contrary, he comes from the realm of pure life, from God; he comes as the one who is truly alive, who is himself the source of life. Luke underlines quite dramatically how different the risen Lord is from a mere “spirit” by recounting that Jesus asked the still fearful disciples for something to eat and then ate a piece of grilled fish before their eyes.

    Most exegetes take the view that Luke is exaggerating here in his apologetic zeal, that a statement of this kind seems to draw Jesus back into the empirical physicality that had been transcended by the Resurrection. Thus Luke ends up contradicting his own narrative, in which Jesus suddenly in the midst of the disciples in the physicality that is no longer subject to the laws of space and time.

    I think it is helpful here to consider the other three passages in which the risen Jesus is presented participating in a meal.

    Immediately before the text just mentioned is the Emmaus story. It ends with Jesus  sitting down to table with the disciples, taking the bread, giving thanks and praise, breaking the bread, and giving it to the two of them. At this moment their eyes are opened, “and they recognized him; and he vanished out of their sight” (Lk 24:31).
    ...

    [Ratzinger then goes on for pages refuting the wrong interpretation of the "exegetes."]


    Before repeating false accusations of a former Pope, may I suggest reading the actual book. Obviously Sanborn is not to be trusted in these matters. Verify before you accuse.

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: “The Holy Father will have much to suffer“
    « Reply #66 on: September 26, 2023, 03:35:01 PM »
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  • Here is what he (Ratzinger)has said concerning the Resurrection of 1 0 Christ:
     
    • It is not the resuscitation of a corpse.
    Yes, the Resurrection of Jesus was not like the resurrection of Lazarus.
     
    • It is an evolutionary leap into a new dimension of human existence.
    Yes, there had been nothing like the Resurrection of Jesus in prior history. It was a unique event. A progression. An evolution.

    • It is not ["the same kind of"] historical event like the birth of Christ or His crucifixion.
    You left some words out of Ratzinger's sentence. You left out as well the 3+ paragraphs of explanation of what he meant by that.

    • It is outside of space and time, i.e., it did not happen in a specific place and at a specific time, and is something which cannot be sensed by the senses.4
    Because his "glorified body" can move through doors and walls.

    • Our Lord’s eating of the fish was an exaggeration of St. Luke, in which he contradicts himself. • The appearance of Christ to St. Paul was “light.”
    Incorrect interpretation of what Ratzinger said. Most "exegetes" said that and Ratzinger was disagreeing with them.
     
    • The appearances of Christ to the other disciples are “real encounters with the living one who is now embodied in a new way.”
    Yes, Jesus was in his "glorified body," a body that could move through doors and walls and could disappear and reappear in other locations.

    • The witnesses to the Resurrection of Christ “experienced a real encounter, coming to them from outside, with something entirely new and unforeseen, namely the self revelation and verbal communication of the risen Christ.” (p. 275)
    What is heretical about that?

    "The well known eminent theologian and ardent antiModernist Father Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P., writing nearly a hundred years ago, said this: “Among the modernists, E. Le Roy [an ardent disciple of Henri Bergson, a famous evolutionist] proposed a similar theory, for he denied the ‘reanimation of the corpse’ as impossible, and taught that Christ rose in a certain sense, inasmuch as He did not cease to act after His death, and to the extent that His soul in another life retained a certain virtual matter.” This description sounds remarkably close to what Ratzinger says.
    Ratzinger's position is nothing like E. Le Roy's. Ratzinger did not deny that Jesus was reanimated. Ratzinger said that his "glorified body" was different from the bodies of Lazarus, Jairus's daughter, the widow's son, etc. Jesus's "glorified body" could move through walls, but he was definitely not a "ghost."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: “The Holy Father will have much to suffer“
    « Reply #67 on: September 26, 2023, 03:41:32 PM »
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  • As I said, it's not worth arguing this.  Angelus has hitched his wagon to a pre-determined narrative where Benny was the pope and Jorge the first antipope (soon to become Antichrist), and he's simply not open to objectively looking at the evidence, so you're wasting your time posting it.


    Offline Angelus

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    Re: “The Holy Father will have much to suffer“
    « Reply #68 on: September 26, 2023, 03:46:56 PM »
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  • As I said, it's not worth arguing this.  Angelus has hitched his wagon to a pre-determined narrative where Benny was the pope and Jorge the first antipope (soon to become Antichrist), and he's simply not open to objectively looking at the evidence, so you're wasting your time posting it.

    You tell 'em Butch...

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/GmIkGcHOZykp/