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Author Topic: Summa on self-defense  (Read 559 times)

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Offline Mark 79

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Summa on self-defense
« on: January 02, 2022, 04:33:28 PM »
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  • Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Summa on self-defense
    « Reply #1 on: January 02, 2022, 04:35:24 PM »
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  • Fr. Adrian Fortescue (of liturgical fame) shot and killed a man in self-defense.

    http://unavoce.org/uva-archive/adrian-fortescue-priest-and-scholar/

    “Adrian Fortescue was a stouty built, full-blooded man, of great physical strength and
    of true manly virtue in the classical sense. This stood him in good stead during his
    journeys to the wild and remote places that he loved so much. Once at least he fought for
    his life. On one occasion he was engaged in a hand-to-hand struggle with some fanatical
    Albanian soldiers at Hebron, and he and his companions had to fight their way with
    bludgeons to their horses and gallop away, in Adrian’s case with a broken collarbone. On a
    second occasion the caravan with which he was travelling in Asia Minor, disguised as an
    Arab, was attacked by brigands, and in self-defense he killed an assailant with a pistol
    shot. He mentioned this incident in a letter to his close friend Father Harold Burton in
    1907:

    Quote
    Quote
    I have just come back from a year spent in Syria, Mesopotamia. Asia Minor & Greece.
    I saw many and wonderful things. I rode long days across the great Syrian desert, alone
    among Arabs. I stood anong the ruins of strange dead Greek cities in Asia Minor &
    slept on the bare earth under broken white columns where Diana of the Ephesians had once
    reigned as a mighty god. And I saw forests & climbed mountains and crept through deep
    passes in the heart of Asia Minor. I went a pilgriming to the holy places too, said Mass
    at the holy sepulchre, spent the night of Maundy Thursday on the Mount of Olives & saw
    the Easter sun rise above the golden walls of Herod’s temple. Then there were Damascus,
    the slow brown waters of the Euphrates, the orchards of Galilee, Cyprus (a heavenly
    island), the tawny pillars of the Athenian Acropolis, the fat plains & strange
    Byzantine monasteries of Thessaly; and- far most glorious of all – the line of domes and
    minarets, radiant, white & fretted like carved ivory against a hot grey-blue sky, that
    crown imperially Constantine’s New Rome by the Bosphorus. So you see I have had a purple
    time. I have learned to talk Syrian Arabic quite well & some Turkish. Greek I could
    talk already; & now I work at Persian like a horse, greatly hoping to go out again in
    a year or two & next time to reach Teheran & Shiraz. Also I made a heap of
    drawings and learned much about Mohammedan ideas. But I suffered a great hunger &
    thirst & heat, was under fire from robbers & Bedawin several times; once I saved
    my life by flight leaving all my baggage to the spoiler, once I shot a man dead (a horrid
    memory): I had my shoulder smashed to bits in a fight at Hebron & lay six weeks sorely
    sick in the French hospital at Jerusalem, & I nearly died of malarial fever at Aleppo.
    Such is the outline. To hear more you must come to see me, as I very much hope you will.
    Now I shall not go back to Maldon, but I am to start a new mission at Letchworth in
    Hertfordshire – where this new Garden City place is. I an very pleased with the idea
    indeed.“
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Summa on self-defense
    « Reply #2 on: January 02, 2022, 06:38:25 PM »
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  • Much appreciated. I was asked by someone about how Catholics allow exceptions to "Thou shalt not kill." I had to go to the Summa to answer. I know the moral theology except for its underpinnings.

    Offline Anne Evergreen

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    Re: Summa on self-defense
    « Reply #3 on: January 09, 2022, 12:43:47 AM »
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  • Interesting! Now if he just had some Hydroxycholoroquine? He would have had a better time with his malarial fever, AND be covered to help prevent Covid-19, LOL.

    :laugh1:

    "The world is thy ship, and not thy home."--The Little Flower

    Offline Angelus

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    Re: Summa on self-defense
    « Reply #4 on: January 09, 2022, 01:54:40 PM »
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  • The section below is from Prummer's Handbook of Moral Theology. Note the propositions limiting the principle by two Popes after St. Thomas Aquinas's time.


    Quote
    Killing the Unjust Aggressor

    
278. PRINCIPLE. One may defend oneself against an unjust aggressor even to the point of killing him, provided that one does not injure him more than is absolutely necessary to ensure self-protection.

    Every man has a strict right to protect himself and his property against unjust aggression. On the part of the assailant, aggression that is at least materially unjust would be sufficient to justify self-defence. Accordingly one retains the right to kill even a madman who tries to inflict grave injury. In the act of defending oneself it is not permitted to kill the assailant unless this is absolutely necessary to safeguard one's own life or goods of great value. Therefore one is not allowed to kill the aggressor: a) if his attack is not presently but only remotely imminent (prop. 18 condemned by Alexander VII). b) if the attack is directed against goods not yet possessed (prop. 32 condemned by Innocent XI) or of little value (prop. 31 condemned by lnnocent XI), c) if the attack is directed against one's honour or good name (prop. 30 condemned by Innocent XI). On the other hand we are justified in killing a man who desires to kill or mutilate us or to injure us in our virtue of chastity (a probable opinion) or in temporal goods of great value.



    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Summa on self-defense
    « Reply #5 on: January 09, 2022, 03:03:22 PM »
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  • The section below is from Prummer's Handbook of Moral Theology. Note the propositions limiting the principle by two Popes after St. Thomas Aquinas's time.

    Even the secular self-defense luminaries teach "Stop the attack." It can never be "Kill the attacker."

    If the defense kills the attacker, it must be because it was necessary to stop the attack.

    Anything else will get you in trouble both in Heaven and on this Earth.

    Offline Legion Camp

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    Re: Summa on self-defense
    « Reply #6 on: January 09, 2022, 06:33:20 PM »
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  • "Clearly, divine law, both that which is known by the light of reason and that which is revealed in Sacred Scripture, strictly forbids anyone, outside of public cause, to kill or wound a man unless compelled to do so in self defense."

    -- Pope Leo XIII to the Archbishops and Bishops of the German Empire and Austria-Hungary, 12SEP 1891
    Rules for "Conservatives":
    1.  All the world's a stage.
    2.  If money's changing hands for anything other than payment for a tangible good or service, it's a confidence game.  In which case;
    3.  Always watch the "other" hand.
    4.  If you can't ID the mark, you are the mark...