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Author Topic: successor to "Pope" Michael  (Read 5372 times)

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Offline trento

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Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2023, 09:11:56 PM »
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    • You know you are dealing with clowns here when he claims to be a traditionalist but derives his orders from the Duarte-Costa line:

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    Gordon: When and why did the ConciliaristChurch break from the Vatican?




    Archbishop Martinez: In 1958 after the death of Pope Pius XII, John XXIII called for the Second Vatican Council in 1962. From there the Conciliar Church was born. It was a break from the Roman Catholic Church in as much as it drifted from the Roman Catholic faith. Examples are Novus Ordo Missae New order of the Mass), New Code of Canon Law, and New Rite of Ordination.  All are inspired by semi- Protestantism.



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    We trace our independent lineage through Roman Catholic Bishop Carlos Duarte-Costa of Brazil. Bishop Duarte-­Costa was a prophetic herald of the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. In as early as 1936, he called for the celebration of the liturgy in the vernacular while facing the people, a greater role of the laity in the liturgy including as Eucharistic ministers, and reception of the Eucharist in both bread and wine.  His call for married clergy and general absolution has been realized in the ANCC.

    We are absolutely committed to the implementation of the full vision of the Second Vatican Council, believing that the Council’s work and wisdom was a high water mark in the history of the Church.  We are heirs of that legacy, committed to its ongoing implementation.



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    Igreja Catolica Apostolica Brasileria (ICAB) - The Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church is an independent Catholic Christian church established in 1945 by excommunicated Brazilian Catholic bishop Carlos Duarte Costa.

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    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #31 on: August 10, 2023, 09:43:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: trento on August 10, 2023, 09:11:56 PM
    You know you are dealing with clowns here when he claims to be a traditionalist but derives his orders from the Duarte-Costa line:
    In his defense, he was "reconciled" by "Pope" Michael and had his orders "regularized" after abjuring his errors. 
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    I recant many opinions on the crisis in the Church and moral theology that I have espoused on here from at least 2019-2021 don't take my postings from that time as well as 2022 possibly too seriously.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #32 on: August 11, 2023, 08:40:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: TKGS on August 10, 2023, 05:28:48 PM
    How is a bishop from both the Duarte-Costa line and the Thuc line?  Was he ordained and/or consecrated twice?

    What's his line through Duarte-Costa and what's his line thru Archbishop Thuc?  They are most certainly not the same line.

    By the way, I noticed that Bawden's website (https://www.vaticaninexile.com/) doesn't identify this successor.  Is "Pope Michael II" just another self-proclaimed pope after the self-proclaimed "Pope Michael"?
    Yeah, I'll take what the anti-Thuc Twitter poster says with a grain of salt.  And the "married with children" comment?  Where's the proof of any of his comments?
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #33 on: August 11, 2023, 08:44:46 AM »
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    • Quote from: trento on August 10, 2023, 09:11:56 PM
    You know you are dealing with clowns here when he claims to be a traditionalist but derives his orders from the Duarte-Costa line:

    Meh, there are a lot of Duarte-Costa lines floating around.  Problem is more with their dubious validity after the first or second generation removed from Duarte-Costa.
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #34 on: August 11, 2023, 03:20:22 PM »
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    • We personally know a so-called bishop of this group.  Fr. Pulvemacher, directed this married man to this group to be ordained a priest.  Then he was made a bishop to elect Pope Michael I.  This Durate Costa group was excommunicated by Pope XI. Note
    this group well, they are around.  The one we know is in the Phoenix area. The Trads  have shown he and his wife the door of the church, to leave.  Note that they also only go for group absolution not the regular confession.  They are a dangerous bunch!
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #35 on: August 11, 2023, 05:10:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: songbird on August 11, 2023, 03:20:22 PM
    We personally know a so-called bishop of this group.  Fr. Pulvemacher, directed this married man to this group to be ordained a priest.  Then he was made a bishop to elect Pope Michael I.  This Durate Costa group was excommunicated by Pope XI. Note
    this group well, they are around.  The one we know is in the Phoenix area. The Trads  have shown he and his wife the door of the church, to leave.  Note that they also only go for group absolution not the regular confession.  They are a dangerous bunch!
    It's a nitpick, but I'm sure you're referring to Pope Pius XII.

    And got to ask, are you referring to Fr Carl Pulvermacher, or his brother, Fr Lucian "Pope Pius XIII" Pulvermacher?  Though I wouldn't have embraced his movement, I always felt a kind of sympathy for the latter, came across as a kind, guileless man, and his writings were perfectly orthodox and traditional.

    Also, if you're referring to the absolution after the Confiteor in the TLM, that is not sacramental absolution, and in and of itself, cannot forgive mortal sin.  There is no "group absolution" in traditional Catholicism (aside from a rare crisis situation where absolution has to be conferred quickly to a group, such as impending death in warfare).
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #36 on: August 12, 2023, 02:42:06 PM »
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    • Simple man:  That is all the reasons why we are against this group.  Durate-Costa was even before Pope Pius XII.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #37 on: August 12, 2023, 05:51:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: TKGS on August 10, 2023, 05:28:48 PM
    By the way, I noticed that Bawden's website (https://www.vaticaninexile.com/) doesn't identify this successor.  Is "Pope Michael II" just another self-proclaimed pope after the self-proclaimed "Pope Michael"?
    .

    I noticed that too, and I also found it strange. Who runs that site? And does that person not accept this new guy as the successor of "Pope" Michael?
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    Offline moneil

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #38 on: August 12, 2023, 06:51:37 PM »
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    • SimpleMan asks a relevant question.  While Pulvemacher is not the most common of family names, there were four Pulvemacher brothers from a family of nine in Wisconsin who became priests: Lucian, Pius, Carl, and Claude.  They all entered the Capuchin Order and were ordained in the 1940’s during the reign of Pope Pius XII.  Father Carl Pulvemacher later joined the Society of St. Pius X and died in 2006.
     
    Father Lucian Pulvemacher was elected Pope Pius XIII by a group in Montana called the True Catholic Church in October 1998.  He died in 2009 and had not been active as a papal claimant after 2005 due to his health.
     
    He is buried in the Springdale, Washington cemetery (Stevens County) 38 miles northwest of Spokane.  Why he was near Springdale I don’t know, perhaps a follower who lived there was caring for him.  I recall seeing his obituary in 2009 and I don’t think there was any mention of a Requiem Mass being celebrated.  The Danekas Funeral Chapel in Colville, who handled his final arrangements, no longer has his obituary online.  A couple of years ago while on a day trip in that area I visited the cemetery.  While it is perhaps only an acre or two, it has “rustic native landscaping” and probable rattle snakes during the summer when I was there.  I didn’t have good hiking boots with me, so I didn’t find his actual grave, pictures are here: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/47061789/lucian-earl-pulvermacher .
    Why his marker also says “Peter II” I don’t know.


    It would be helpful if songbird could clarify who the "Father Pulvemacher" is that she is referring to.

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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #39 on: August 13, 2023, 04:07:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: moneil on August 12, 2023, 06:51:37 PM
    SimpleMan asks a relevant question.  While Pulvemacher is not the most common of family names, there were four Pulvemacher brothers from a family of nine in Wisconsin who became priests: Lucian, Pius, Carl, and Claude.  They all entered the Capuchin Order and were ordained in the 1940’s during the reign of Pope Pius XII.  Father Carl Pulvemacher later joined the Society of St. Pius X and died in 2006.
     
    Father Lucian Pulvemacher was elected Pope Pius XIII by a group in Montana called the True Catholic Church in October 1998.  He died in 2009 and had not been active as a papal claimant after 2005 due to his health.
     
    He is buried in the Springdale, Washington cemetery (Stevens County) 38 miles northwest of Spokane.  Why he was near Springdale I don’t know, perhaps a follower who lived there was caring for him.  I recall seeing his obituary in 2009 and I don’t think there was any mention of a Requiem Mass being celebrated.  The Danekas Funeral Chapel in Colville, who handled his final arrangements, no longer has his obituary online.  A couple of years ago while on a day trip in that area I visited the cemetery.  While it is perhaps only an acre or two, it has “rustic native landscaping” and probable rattle snakes during the summer when I was there.  I didn’t have good hiking boots with me, so I didn’t find his actual grave, pictures are here: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/47061789/lucian-earl-pulvermacher .
    Why his marker also says “Peter II” I don’t know.


    It would be helpful if songbird could clarify who the "Father Pulvemacher" is that she is referring to.


    Four brothers, all priests.  That is remarkable.  I knew there were two, I didn't know about the others.

    As far out in left field as he was, requiescat in pace.
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    Offline Emile

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #40 on: September 11, 2023, 01:09:10 PM »
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    • Brief Outline of the Episcopal Lineage of Pope Michael II
    BISHOP ROGELIO DEL ROSARIO MARTINEZ, JR.
    Born: 31 October 1970
     Sta. Cruz, Manila

    Ordained Priest: 12 April 2003
    Novaliches, Quezon City

    Ordained Bishop: 6 February 2010
    Principal Consecrator:
    Archbishop Joel Galang Clemente
    Co-Consecrator:
    Bishop Heyward Bruce Ewart
    Episcopal Lineage / Apostolic Succession:
     
    Bishop Rogelio Del Rosario Martinez, Jr. ( 2010 )
    Archbishop Joel Galang Clemente ( 2009 )
    Archbishop Robert J. Russel ( 2006 )
    Bishop William Anthony Swyers ( 1992 )
    Bishop John Kelly ( 1990 )
    Bishop Patrick J. Cronin ( 1988 )
    Patriarch Luis Fernando Castillo Mendez ( 1948 )
    Bishop Carlos Duarte Costa ( 1924 )
    Mariano Cardinal Rampolla del Tindaro ( 1882 )
    Edward Henry Cardinal Howard ( 1872 )
    Carlo Filippo Cardinal Fransoni ( 1822 )
    Pietro Francesco Cardinal Galleffi ( 1819 )
    Alessandro Cardinal Mattei ( 1777 )
    Bernardino Cardinal Giraud ( 1767 )
    Pope Carlo della Torre Rezzonico ( 1743 )
    Pope Prospero Lorenzo Lambertini ( 1724 )
    Pope Pietro Francesco ( Vincenzo Maria ) Orsini de Gravina, O.P. ( 1675 )
    Paluzzo Cardinal Paluzzi Altieri Degli Albertoni ( 1666 )
    Ulderico Cardinal Carpegna ( 1630 )
    Luigi Cardinal Caetani ( 1622 )
    Ludovico Cardinal Ludovisi ( 1621 )
    Archbishop Galeazzo Sanvitale ( 1604 )
    Girolamo Cardinal Bernerio O.P. ( 1586 )
    Giulio Antonio Cardinal Santorio ( 1566 )
    Scipione Cardinal Rebiba

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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #41 on: September 11, 2023, 03:20:57 PM »
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    • What an absolute joke.
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    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #42 on: September 11, 2023, 04:57:00 PM »
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    • That Duarte-Costa line of "bishops" will really ordain and consecrate just about anyone, won't they? They're the ITT Tech of episcopal lineages.
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    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #43 on: September 12, 2023, 09:20:38 AM »
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    • His coronation will take place in the Philippines.  Maybe Father Chazal could stop by and pay his respects to the new Papa.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #44 on: September 12, 2023, 09:28:32 AM »
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    • Quote from: Emile on September 11, 2023, 01:09:10 PM
    Episcopal Lineage / Apostolic Succession:
     
    Bishop Rogelio Del Rosario Martinez, Jr. ( 2010 )
    Archbishop Joel Galang Clemente ( 2009 )
    Archbishop Robert J. Russel ( 2006 )
    Bishop William Anthony Swyers ( 1992 )
    Bishop John Kelly ( 1990 )
    Bishop Patrick J. Cronin ( 1988 )

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Patriarch Luis Fernando Castillo Mendez ( 1948 )
    Bishop Carlos Duarte Costa ( 1924 )
    Mariano Cardinal Rampolla del Tindaro ( 1882 )
    Edward Henry Cardinal Howard ( 1872 )
    Carlo Filippo Cardinal Fransoni ( 1822 )
    Pietro Francesco Cardinal Galleffi ( 1819 )
    Alessandro Cardinal Mattei ( 1777 )
    Bernardino Cardinal Giraud ( 1767 )
    Pope Carlo della Torre Rezzonico ( 1743 )
    Pope Prospero Lorenzo Lambertini ( 1724 )
    Pope Pietro Francesco ( Vincenzo Maria ) Orsini de Gravina, O.P. ( 1675 )
    Paluzzo Cardinal Paluzzi Altieri Degli Albertoni ( 1666 )
    Ulderico Cardinal Carpegna ( 1630 )
    Luigi Cardinal Caetani ( 1622 )
    Ludovico Cardinal Ludovisi ( 1621 )
    Archbishop Galeazzo Sanvitale ( 1604 )
    Girolamo Cardinal Bernerio O.P. ( 1586 )
    Giulio Antonio Cardinal Santorio ( 1566 )
    Scipione Cardinal Rebiba

    In inserted the line where the validity becomes dubious.  Mendez probably the last certainly valid one in the line.
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