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Author Topic: successor to "Pope" Michael  (Read 5409 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2023, 11:18:58 AM »
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  • One of the links described their process of electing the new "pope" as basically a random drawing, the same way St. Matthias was chosen, I assume from a small pool of candidates. That's not really the same thing as voting. I don't see how this method could be used to validly elect a pope.

    I mean, apart from all the other ways in which this will be the most invalid papal election in 2,000 years. :facepalm:

    Do any of the resident papacy nerds want to weigh in on this? Can you elect a pope by a random drawing instead of by casting votes?

    In theory, I don't see why one couldn't elect a pope through a drawing.  Popes could designated pretty much any means they see fit, right down to simply appointing a successor.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #16 on: July 29, 2023, 11:21:14 AM »
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  • I want to say since the Council of Trent (or it might have been Florence or even before that) it's required that a College of Cardinals vote for the Election of a Pope.  As far as I know this process has not been changed by any valid Pope thus their little drawing is in no way official, binding, or papal in any way.  I don't really follow the going-ons of these people but I'm pretty sure they're invoking "epikeia" or some other loophole to try to make it sound/seem legit.

    But a legitimate Pope could abolish the College of Cardinals and come up with a new way to elect popes, with the assumption here of course being that Michael I was a legitimate pope (that's why I said above "in theory").


    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #17 on: July 29, 2023, 10:08:25 PM »
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  • But a legitimate Pope could abolish the College of Cardinals and come up with a new way to elect popes, with the assumption here of course being that Michael I was a legitimate pope (that's why I said above "in theory").
    Yes I agree, I just know that Antipope "Michael" wasn't elected by a college of cardinals which is the standard as of now unless a true future Pope does indeed change it. 

    Offline duck2050

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #18 on: August 10, 2023, 02:50:05 PM »
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  • Surprised that no one here has posted that the fellow is now Pope Michael II. :jester:
    https://twitter.com/BishopsThuc/status/1688400604614275073

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #19 on: August 10, 2023, 04:07:09 PM »
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  • Surprised that no one here has posted that the fellow is now Pope Michael II. :jester:
    https://twitter.com/BishopsThuc/status/1688400604614275073
    From the link:

    "Great news!!! A successor to Pope Michael has been chosen. A married with children Duarte-Costa and VV line bishop is new pope. Habemus papem!!! Long live Michael II!"

    Wow...    :facepalm: :fryingpan:
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #20 on: August 10, 2023, 04:20:26 PM »
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  • I think how I know how we all pretty much feel, I wonder what God thinks of this. :pray:
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online ElwinRansom1970

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    • γνῶθι σεαυτόν - temet nosce
    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #21 on: August 10, 2023, 04:34:59 PM »
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  • What is a VV line?
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #22 on: August 10, 2023, 04:57:58 PM »
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  • What is a VV line?
    That is what the owner of that account calls the Thuc line. (VV= Vietnamese Vagabound)
    I recant many opinions on the crisis in the Church and moral theology that I have espoused on here from at least 2019-2021 don't take my postings from that time as well as 2022 possibly too seriously.


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #23 on: August 10, 2023, 05:24:33 PM »
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  • From the link:

    "Great news!!! A successor to Pope Michael has been chosen. A married with children Duarte-Costa and VV line bishop is new pope. Habemus papem!!! Long live Michael II!"

    Wow...    :facepalm: :fryingpan:


    It's "papam".

    He'd probably be an improvement over the occupant of the papal chair at the moment.

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #24 on: August 10, 2023, 05:28:48 PM »
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  • How is a bishop from both the Duarte-Costa line and the Thuc line?  Was he ordained and/or consecrated twice?

    What's his line through Duarte-Costa and what's his line thru Archbishop Thuc?  They are most certainly not the same line.

    By the way, I noticed that Bawden's website (https://www.vaticaninexile.com/) doesn't identify this successor.  Is "Pope Michael II" just another self-proclaimed pope after the self-proclaimed "Pope Michael"?

    Offline Emile

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #25 on: August 10, 2023, 05:47:52 PM »
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  • Report on the Conclave in Vienna to find the successor of Pope Michael
    Short Summary
    On 25 July 2023 the Conclave in Vienna, chaired by Archbishop Rogelio Martinez, opened the first session with Veni Creator Spiritus and closed on 29 July 2023 with the prayer of the new Pope Michael II. Attendees were candidates and three witnesses.
    Pretext
    The death of Pope Michael I and situation of sede vacante occurred on 2 August 2022. Public announcement followed on 9 August 2022 (Olive Tree, Newsletter of the Holy See).
    A meeting of electors was announced for April 2023. Meetings were held in Topeka / Kansas / USA from 10 April 2023 to 24 April 2023. Papal election was postponed.
    As new date for a conclave the 25 July 2023, Feast of St. James the Apostle, was fixed. The process of finding the successor of Pope Michael via five rounds of lots drawing and a list of candidates was proposed by Archbishop Martinez. The clergy raised no objections against the method or on the selection of candidates before the conclave began. Also, Archbishop Martinez announced Vienna / Austria as venue for the election, which was also not challenged by clergy. The upcoming conclave was publicly announced in the July 2023 issue of Olive Tree.

    Conclave Vienna / Austria,
    First Session, 25 July 2023
    Schedule
    9.00 am, Opening (Veni Creator Spiritus)
    Holy Mass (Holy Spirit), Archbishop Martinez
    Profession of Faith prescribed by Pope Michael
    Litany of the Saints
    Information about procedure
    Drawing of Lots
    Contacting candidate
    10.15 am, Closing of the session
    At the fifth round of drawing, the lot fell on one of the candidates, not physically present. Archbishop Martinez requested a participant who was present to contact the candidate. After failed attempt Archbishop Martinez closed the conclave for 48 hours in order to reach the candidate and clarify his acceptance.

    Second Session: Vienna, 27 July 2023, 11 am.
    On 26 July Archbishop Martinez invited attendees of the first session for an online-meeting on the next day at 11 am, when the 48 hours pause expired.
    Schedule
    9 am, Holy Mass
    Meeting started 11 am, ended 11.30 am
    Topics: The participants conversed on current state of Papal Election and exchanged information about interested public outside the Conclave.
    While drawing lots in this session was considered, the participants agreed that a witness for this process should be invited. Hence it was agreed to postpone the next election to the next day.
    It was agreed to send participants an email invitation for the online-meeting and try to contact the participants in the USA.

    Third Session: Vienna, 28 July 2023, 11 am.
    On 27 July Archbishop Martinez and the other attendants agreed to meet on the next day to proceed with the election of the new Pope. A laywoman was invited as a witness. In the meantime the chosen candidate of the first session contacted Archbishop Martinez via email.
    Schedule
    09.00 am, Holy Mass
    11.10 am, Archbishop Martinez opens the session with a prayer
    11.40 am, Archbishop Martinez closed the session
    Topics: After prayer Archbishop Martinez read aloud the emails which he had received since the last session. The situation was discussed. Participants concluded that the status of the decision of the chosen candidate was not sufficiently clear. A native speaker will read the emails of the candidate to clarify potential misunderstandings. Archbishop Martinez closed the session until next day, same time.

    Fourth Session: Vienna, 29 July 2023, 11 am.
    Schedule
    09.00 am, Holy Mass
    11.10 am, Archbishop Martinez opens the session with a prayer
    Clarifications about situation
    Profession of Faith prescribed by Pope Michael
    Details about procedure
    Drawing of Lots
    Declaration of acceptance
    12.00 pm, Session closed
    Topics: After opening prayer a participant reported about his phone call with the candidate of the first session. He came to the certain conclusion that the candidate declined. Hence the list of candidates was adapted, and three candidates remained.
    The same drawing procedure as in the first session was applied. After four rounds the lot fell on a candidate present. Archbishop Rogelio Martinez asked the chosen candidate if he accepted the election. The chosen candidate declined.
    A second drawing procedure with two candidates was held. After five rounds the lot fell on Archbishop Rogelio Martinez.
    A participant asked the chosen candidate if he accepted the election. After the affirmative response, the participant asked the elect which name he as the Supreme Pontiff will take. The Vicar of Christ on Earth took the name Michael II.
    Next steps on adoration, coronation and public announcement were discussed. The session was closed with prayer of Pope Michael II.

    Habemus Papam!






    Online Minnesota

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #26 on: August 10, 2023, 06:44:54 PM »
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  • I have a lot of questions. No expectations for any answers.
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #27 on: August 10, 2023, 06:49:55 PM »
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  • That is what the owner of that account calls the Thuc line. (VV= Vietnamese Vagabound)

    Poster is a vile dirtbag for the disrespect shown to Archbishop Thuc.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #28 on: August 10, 2023, 06:55:02 PM »
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  • Well, seems more legit than Bergoglio.  Of the various papal claimants, this man is several notches above Jorge due to simply having the Catholic faith.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: successor to "Pope" Michael
    « Reply #29 on: August 10, 2023, 06:57:17 PM »
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  • He'd probably be an improvement over the occupant of the papal chair at the moment.