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Author Topic: Why Paul More Than Jesus?  (Read 9181 times)

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Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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Why Paul More Than Jesus?
« on: March 16, 2025, 01:55:52 PM »
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  • Why is there far more written text by Paul than direct quotes of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament? Does anyone find that peculiar? Jesus is Our Lord and Savior, so you would think that most of the text would be quotes and direct teachings from Him, not letters and text from a man who arrived on the scene after Christ's Life, Divine Sacrifice and Resurrection.

    Offline VerdenFell

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    Re: Strange Disproportion
    « Reply #1 on: March 16, 2025, 02:08:15 PM »
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  • Sometimes I catch myself wondering about things like that. Instead of so many passages in the Old Testament about 
    the Hebrews doing this or that to displease God I wish there were more explicit statements in the New Testament about doctrine that would have prevented the likes of Luther, Calvin and all their ilk from perverting the meaning of basic tenets. Also a lot of the early heresies could have been prevented but we have to trust God left in exactly what was necessary. 


    Offline IndultCat

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    Re: Why Paul More Than Jesus?
    « Reply #2 on: March 16, 2025, 02:30:02 PM »
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  • Why is there far more written text by Paul than direct quotes of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament? Does anyone find that peculiar? Jesus is Our Lord and Savior, so you would think that most of the text would be quotes and direct teachings from Him, not letters and text from a man who arrived on the scene after Christ's Life, Divine Sacrifice and Resurrection.
    Many people, especially Protestants, are more "Paulines" than "Christians."

    Offline Sneedevacantist

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    Re: Strange Disproportion
    « Reply #3 on: March 16, 2025, 03:51:44 PM »
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  • Sometimes I catch myself wondering about things like that. Instead of so many passages in the Old Testament about
    the Hebrews doing this or that to displease God I wish there were more explicit statements in the New Testament about doctrine that would have prevented the likes of Luther, Calvin and all their ilk from perverting the meaning of basic tenets. Also a lot of the early heresies could have been prevented but we have to trust God left in exactly what was necessary.
    It doesn't matter how many explicit statements about doctrine could have been added to the scriptures, heretics like Luther and Calvin would have still found a way to interpret scripture in a perverse manner to suit their theology. Heretics have always reinterpreted even the most plainly clear passages of scripture to support their novel ideas. This is a pride problem, not a contents of scripture problem.

    Offline VerdenFell

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    Re: Strange Disproportion
    « Reply #4 on: March 16, 2025, 04:08:02 PM »
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  • It doesn't matter how many explicit statements about doctrine could have been added to the scriptures, heretics like Luther and Calvin would have still found a way to interpret scripture in a perverse manner to suit their theology. Heretics have always reinterpreted even the most plainly clear passages of scripture to support their novel ideas. This is a pride problem, not a contents of scripture problem.
    Yes, it's a bit like how leftist see the constitution as a "living docuмent" meaning you can interpret any way you want for one's ends. They twist and contort the wording so free speech doesn't include "hate speech" and the right to privacy surely includes unlimited wanton infanticide. 
    I recall how a one Barry Sotero, the constitutional law scholar from Harvard, claimed that the 2nd amendment was intended for hunters! It appears he forgot that an armed citizenenry just waged a war against a tyrannical government shortly before the constitution was written.

     


    Offline Predestination2

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    Re: Why Paul More Than Jesus?
    « Reply #5 on: March 16, 2025, 05:07:58 PM »
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  • Why is there far more written text by Paul than direct quotes of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament? Does anyone find that peculiar? Jesus is Our Lord and Savior, so you would think that most of the text would be quotes and direct teachings from Him, not letters and text from a man who arrived on the scene after Christ's Life, Divine Sacrifice and Resurrection.
    For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Why Paul More Than Jesus?
    « Reply #6 on: March 16, 2025, 05:55:30 PM »
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  • And I thought all of scripture was inspired by the Holy Spirit no matter who exactly wrote it. Paul even calls himself an apostle of Christ, and of course we know this story as told in Acts. An apostle is someone who is called, taught, and sent by Christ.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Why Paul More Than Jesus?
    « Reply #7 on: March 16, 2025, 07:39:48 PM »
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  • Why is there far more written text by Paul than direct quotes of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament? Does anyone find that peculiar? Jesus is Our Lord and Savior, so you would think that most of the text would be quotes and direct teachings from Him, not letters and text from a man who arrived on the scene after Christ's Life, Divine Sacrifice and Resurrection.
    Jesus was with apostles for 3 years and did not write anything as far as we know.  The four gospels are written or dictated by people who were with Jesus during that time.  Then Jesus left us.  Did you want the New Testament to end there?  

    Paul was one of Jesus' biggest converts.  His story is amazing.  Why would it be strange for him to write prolifically after his conversion?  Why would Paul not be inspired by the Holy Spirit to write to others to help them become Catholic?
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"


    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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    Re: Why Paul More Than Jesus?
    « Reply #8 on: March 17, 2025, 04:24:49 AM »
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  • Jesus was with apostles for 3 years and did not write anything as far as we know.  The four gospels are written or dictated by people who were with Jesus during that time.  Then Jesus left us.   
    Duh ya think?

    Quote
    Did you want the New Testament to end there?
    Your question is retarded as it potentially becomes a circular argument (which is a logical fallacy), if addressed. Moreover, by your question, you sound as if you believe in "hermeneutic of continuity". So you "trads" out there who (rightfully) reject HoC, you're hypocrites for pointing and shaking your fingers at me for starting this thread.

    Quote
    Paul was one of Jesus' biggest converts.  His story is amazing.  Why would it be strange for him to write prolifically after his conversion?  Why would Paul not be inspired by the Holy Spirit to write to others to help them become Catholic?
    This is not a logical response to my question. It's not strange for him to write prolifically. I didn't say it was, nor did I question Paul being inspired by the Holy Spirit to help convert people to Christ. That's what saints do. They give their testimonies to help people convert but it's not included in Biblical canon like Paul's. I said it's peculiar that there are a lot more of Paul's text than quotes and direct teachings of Jesus Christ. So I'll ask, again: Why are there far more of Paul's texts than actual quotes and direct teachings by Jesus in the NT? Jesus should have more because He is Our Lord and Savior. He is whole. He is truth. To have a mere man come in on the scene after Jesus goes to Heaven, and have that man's letters become Biblical canon and outnumber what Jesus is quoted as saying while He dwelt among us, suggests some sort of discrepancy. If this wasn't the Bible under analysis, then it would only be reasonable to consider that what was started by the source wasn't sufficient, therefore, an addition had to be made outside of the source to make it complete; or the addition is some sort of hidden malevolence meant to corrupt those using it. Because there is no point in adding something if it's already complete and contains the whole truth or is working at 100% performance. So, back to the Bible, why would God have to make an addition to what His Son contributed? God is all-powerful. He easily could've finished the Bible by what His Son lived and spoke on earth.


    Offline AMDG forever

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    Re: Why Paul More Than Jesus?
    « Reply #9 on: March 17, 2025, 04:54:22 AM »
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  • Catholics refer to “Paul” as Saint Paul. Protestants tend to use just his given name. God gave us this great Saint as an example and to instruct us in the Faith, it’s not for us to question God’s wisdom and his ways. The OP is almost suggesting that God made some sort of mistake. From the OP’s second post he makes it somewhat clear that this is not the case, but I’m not understanding why a Catholic would ask such a question.

    Offline WhiteWorkinClassScapegoat

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    Re: Why Paul More Than Jesus?
    « Reply #10 on: March 17, 2025, 04:58:35 AM »
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  • Catholics refer to “Paul” as Saint Paul. Protestants tend to use just his given name. God gave us this great Saint as an example and to instruct us in the Faith, it’s not for us to question God’s wisdom and his ways. The OP is almost suggesting that God made some sort of mistake. From the OP’s second post he makes it somewhat clear that this is not the case, but I’m not understanding why a Catholic would ask such a question.
    That's not an answer. So the question still stands and waits to be answered.


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Why Paul More Than Jesus?
    « Reply #11 on: March 17, 2025, 05:20:25 AM »
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  • Why are there far more of Paul's texts than actual quotes and direct teachings by Jesus in the NT?
    But one may as well surmise" "What need was there of St. Paul and the other Apostles at all? After all, Jesus could have done everything they did, and He would have done it infinitely better."

    The simple answer is, because that was part of God's plan, it's how God wanted His Church on earth to be established. Perhaps because St. Paul was one of the worst, God chose to make him one of the best explainers or teachers. The Fathers have written volumes explaining one simple sentence spoken by Our Lord in an attempt to get the fullness of the the sentence's meaning, so it should not be too surprising that there are far more texts from St. Paul than Our Lord. 


     

     
      
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Mendel

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    Re: Why Paul More Than Jesus?
    « Reply #12 on: March 17, 2025, 08:31:39 AM »
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  • Why is there far more written text by Paul than direct quotes of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament? Does anyone find that peculiar? Jesus is Our Lord and Savior, so you would think that most of the text would be quotes and direct teachings from Him, not letters and text from a man who arrived on the scene after Christ's Life, Divine Sacrifice and Resurrection.
    I believe this was already answered in sacred scripture itself.

    Quote
    "But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written." -John 21:25, Douay Rheims Bible




    Online Everlast22

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    Re: Strange Disproportion
    « Reply #13 on: March 17, 2025, 09:04:10 AM »
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  • Yes, it's a bit like how leftist see the constitution as a "living docuмent" meaning you can interpret any way you want for one's ends. They twist and contort the wording so free speech doesn't include "hate speech" and the right to privacy surely includes unlimited wanton infanticide.
    I recall how a one Barry Sotero, the constitutional law scholar from Harvard, claimed that the 2nd amendment was intended for hunters! It appears he forgot that an armed citizenenry just waged a war against a tyrannical government shortly before the constitution was written.

     
    Well the constitution is not anything Catholic friendly in my opinion. It's the same precepts as the French revolution just worded differently, and without the bƖσσdshɛd to the extent of the French Revolution. (The Catholics didn't have the presence in the colonies the way France did)

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Why Paul More Than Jesus?
    « Reply #14 on: March 17, 2025, 09:13:58 AM »
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  • I think the simple answer is that if Christ had written most of the New Testament, then anti-catholics could've easily attacked it as narcissistic and cultish.  It would've come across as some kind of weird manifesto by some "loner".  It could've been easily labled as the thoughts of a 'one person movement'.

    The fact that the gospel was written by
    a.  Simple folk (i.e. apostles who were working-class)
    b.  former enemies (i.e. Paul, who first persecuted the christians)
    c.  educated classes (i.e.  St Luke was a doctor and St Matthew was a tax collector).
    d.  All of these people (a cross section of society) died horrible deaths in support of Christ.

    God knows what He is doing.  The way the gospel was written 
    a.  gives the most evidence for veracity (the people who wrote it all died in an effort to support it...and no one dies for a lie), 
    b.  gives the least amount of bias (a cross-section of people followed Christ, which shows it was not some localized cult but a movement with a foundation), and
    c.  provides the most amount of historical evidence (since all of these people can be verified and have different perspectives/writing styles).