Right before I came to Tradition, I was involved in my NO church. I was dating a girl at the time, and when I found tradition, I brought her with me. Her parents, staunch NO supporters, protested, and she stopped all contact with me for a time. I finally spoke with her a few months later, and she said her parents 'encouraged' her to go to school at Stubenville for university. I remember asking her about what we'd learned together about Tradition; she said that she'd visited 'Stubenville' and it was very 'conservative'; not like it was for us in southern California. Look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cfnjjv#p/u/6/d-Eg7via3q8

Make sure you go to 2:50 to and look towards the top/middle of the screen (to the right of the 'priest's' head. :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

.... she said that she'd visited 'Stubenville' and it was very 'conservative'; not like it was for us in southern California. Look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/user/cfnjjv#p/u/6/d-Eg7via3q8

If this is what yall would call "conservative", I don't want to know what kind of abominations yall have over there.   :barf:

There was nothing even remotely Catholic about that.  

I had no idea the charismatics were still around in such numbers.  

A large part of Steubenville is charismatic. That said, they are typically morally conservative (vehemently against abortion, contraception, euthanasia, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ acts, etc.) Also there is a subset of Steubenville students who are Traditional and some former students who have found it. It seems Steubenville at least plants orthodox Catholic seeds in students, though their official charismatic bent causes confusion. Also many students avoid these festivals of praise, etc. in favor of more conservative Masses.

The whole video seems like an entertainment production to me. It's just like the teen rock masses. They are trying to give a cheap emotional high in an attempt to lure people in, but once the high wears off, they are usually let down.

Fr. Robinson once said that Catholics created the Charismatic movement because they were desperately searching for a replacement for the bankrupt VCII spirituality. How true.

I was unfortunately involved with a Charismatic group in college.  I have mentioned this on other  threads, but is summary it was an almost totally bad experience.  

'Charismatics' believe in what is known as 'continuing revelation', i.e. the idea that their
'h-ly sp-rit' (so-called) continues to 'speak' to them and tell them things that they are not only bound to believe, but bound to tell others and relate as true. In short, the charismatic adherent acts as his/her own Magisterium, which is entirely Protestant and heretical in nature.

The charismatic movement was an offshoot of the 'holiness church' movement of the late 1800s and early 1900s in the US. The 'holiness church' was itself a result of the fracturing of the Methodist denomination into at least three distinct parts (Primitive Methodist, United Methodist and Holiness). The 'church of the Nazarene' is an offshoot of the 'holiness church'... what a zoo!

Anyway, the Methodists were schismatic from the Anglicans, who, of course, were schismatic from the Roman Catholic Church. The Methodists believed that Anglican 'worship' had become too rote, too mechanical, and that people were not being taught their 'faith' properly. Thus, the Methodists, like the Wesleys and George Whitefield (to a degree; he never actually left Anglican orders) began to insist upon 'methods' of encouraging worship and participation in parish life.

Once the Methodists reached the Colonies, they were met with resounding failure. It took decades for Methodism to take hold on a large scale in the U.S. Only Whitefield was successful at 'converting' anyone (indeed, thousands made 'professions of faith'; even Benjamin Franklin, known for his rationalist/agnostic stance, was suitably impressed), and it became, as with Jonathan Edwards, the Puritan, 'de rigeur' to get 'saved' or 'converted' at a Whitefield meeting.

Alas, as is always the case with start-up denominations, which were founded because someone disagreed with someone and started a 'new' thing that was supposed to 'restore' or 'return' people to the 'real doctrines of whatever', people got sick of the Methodists, too. They charged that the Methodist ministers and people were too routine, too formal and too mechanical. These dissenters insisted that the 'spirit' was still giving out gifts like tongues, prophecy, healing, etc, in their day, and began demanding that they be allowed to interrupt services with their ecstatic gobbledy-gook. Of course, the entrenched Methodist leadership wanted nothing to do with such carrying on, so the dissenters left and formed the 'holiness church', which was intended to bring 'christians' back to zeal for right living, ecstatic 'powers' of the 'spirit' and so on.

Within a generation or two of the creation of the holiness denomination, they had ALREADY split into several NEW denominations. THOSE denominations came about because a woman named Agnes Ozman supposedly received the 'gift of tongues' at a Bible-school class in the Midwest. Many people, disaffected by the routine and pomposity of the 'established' denominations, took to this 'new' phenomenon immediately. Fast-forward to 1906 and Azusa, California, and a BARN (of all places) on Azusa Street. There, a black man, not previously allowed to attend these new 'services', suddenly claims to be able to 'get the spirit' while sticking his head in a bread-box. He becomes the 'pastor' of this new meeting that takes place in this barn, and the newspapers of the period start referring to the meetings as an attempt at a 'new Pentecost'. Hence the name, Pentecostal or Pentecostalism (for the movement).

Charismatic 'theology' is erroneous because it teaches that spiritual gifts like tongues have continued past the death of the Apostles; this cannot be true, because the spiritual gifts in question were given to Christians IN ORDER to authenticate the message of Christ that they were preaching; Apostolic authority was then necessary to examine any converts and CONFIRM them in the Faith. Once Christian communities were established, with duly appointed Bishops, priests and deacons, the CHURCH rather than the individual, became the repository of the 'spiritual gifts'.

In other words, charismatic gifts were necessarily MISSIONARY, designed to be proof that their bearer was in fact an emissary of Christ. There always was, however, and always needed to be, a hierarchy of gifts, from the least necessary for spiritual growth to the most necessary. Tongues were among the least gifts; once native-speaking Christians were confirmed in newly-reached lands, there was no further need to use tongues in those areas. Preaching, on the other hand, was considered a FAR more important gift, because spiritual formation is the ongoing process whereby our lives are made conformable to Christ, and spiritual fathers (priests and Bishops) are always necessary for that formation.

Charity (1st Epistle of St. Paul to the Corinthians, chapter 13) is considered the GREATEST of the gifts that still abide in EVERY Christian (it is clear from the Biblical text that not every gift would exist indefinitely in every Christian). Of 'faith, hope and charity', the greatest is charity, because faith can be had individually, even when living as a hermit. Hope is greater, because hope takes faith and OFFERS it to the world and helps one to SEE the world as redeemable in Christ. Charity, however, is the greatest gift because Charity represents the totally selfless giving to others, despite hardships, despite rejection, that was the hallmark of Christ's ministry on earth before the Cross.

Charismatic beliefs put the individual, rather than the Church, at the top of the ladder of authority. They likewise insist that FAR LESSER gifts be given equal place with the GREATEST gifts, which are defined DE FIDE by the Apostle Paul.

Charismaticism is also the bastard baby of Protestant self-determinism, and thus is to be rejected, not just avoided or qualified with platitudes about 'but they believe such nice things'.

Charismatic behaviors and beliefs are found, supported and encouraged NOWHERE in Tradition; said behaviors and beliefs are actually solemnly condemned in many places in the Councils of the Church.

Forgive me for not going into how the Charismatic movement reached into the Novus Ordo, but the NO blasphemes Christ and denigrates His Sacrifice ENOUGH without me rehashing the awful sacrileges that take place in Novus 'charismatic' services.

Holy Apostles, filled with the Holy Spirit's power to build the Church, pray for us.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

You're all welcome; I spent time as a volunteer staff-person with an independent charismatic outfit. I have also done lots of research into the history of the various denominations. It really is shocking to see how many groups have split from other groups, and have levied charges against them, talking about how they have 'defected from the truth', and yet they never get around to the Church that they've ALL defected from!

See, in my opinion, when someone is born into or joins a Prot sect, they do not necessarily reject the Catholic Church outright IN THEIR MINDS OR HEARTS, but as soon as they mentally and spiritually assent to heretical doctrines, they automatically cut themselves off from the Church.

One simply cannot be both things at once; a Protestant who believes in private interpretation of Scripture AND sympathetic to the Catholic Church which allows for NO such doctrine.

Neither can someone accept, profess and/or teach that the Holy Ghost is still revealing 'truths' about the Church or the individual that are not founded on the Bible and Tradition, while still claiming to believe that the FULLNESS of Divine Revelation is in and is COMPLETE in the Roman Catholic Church.

The charismatic folly is one of the most pernicious and wicked weapons the Devil has against men, because in the interest of getting together and jabbering in their false 'tongues', they are willing to scuttle all sorts of truths that the Church teaches and to associate with heretics. It is bedlam and to be totally avoided.

St. Anthony of Padua, hammer of heretics, terror of Hell, pray for us.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

Because charismatic spirituality is so driven by emotionalism, women are often drawn to it. Because this movement is so based on individualism and Gnostic 'secret' revelations and mysterious 'tongues', women are attracted because there is very little hierarchy in their groups outside the appointment of a preacher(s).

Women do, in fact, become 'small group' leaders, and in the late 20th century, there was a rash of female 'preachers', 'prophetesses' and 'evangelists' on the major charismatic meeting circuits.

Mother Angelica of EWTN has supported people like Scott Hahn, who is a rabid defender of and committed supporter of the brand of charismatic nonsense that takes place at Steubenville. People who have attended meetings there are often enamored with the writings of Prot heretics like:

Joyce Meyer
T.D. Jakes
Marilyn Hickey

and others who promote a basically structureless, experience-driven religion; structureless, of course, until it is time to pass the baskets, at which time these crooks become the top dogs and everyone is expected to 'tithe' to them.

Even the arch-heretic Luther was sick and tired of the so-called 'Enthusiasts', who badgered him with their desire that he accept their 'revelations' and ecstasies 'in the Spirit.

Luther's reply? "I ought to smack your 'spirit' on its snout.", as if it were a bad dog, LOL.

Charismatic spirituality is devoid of God's graces because so many necessary and incontrovertible doctrines of the Church are either ignored or actively opposed, namely:

the role of women in the Church (there are NO priestly ordinations of any kind; only Holy Orders to the religious life as nuns; also, women are to be SILENT in the Church, as St. Paul the Apostle taught)

the rejection of private interpretation as dangerous and illicit (charismatics ignore the Church on this point more than any other; individualized and mysterious interpretations of Scripture are at the heart of the errors in their movement.

Those who claim that their charismatic experiences somehow validate or enhance their 'catholic' faith are in fact guilty of sacrilege, because while they believe they are worshiping the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, they are actually flaunting their rejection of His Vicar's authority in the name of 'worship', thus insulting Our Lord and His Kingship.

Holy Apostles, filled with the Spirit and sent to build Christ's Church, pray for us.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.