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Author Topic: SSPX, indult, sedevacantist seminarians, priests with annulled marriages?  (Read 3065 times)

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Offline lmauwnrcehnicne

Re: SSPX, indult, sedevacantist seminarians, priests with annulled marriages?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2021, 09:56:43 AM »
It would really depend on the candidate and if there was anything notorious about the case. A man who has lived as a lothario before a genuine conversion can easily be refused admission to seminary. This is done for the good of the Church. 
I don't really get the purpose of annulments though. If a person was lacking something necessary when they went through with the marriage ceremony how can we tell if they have it when they try to get married a second time much less if he desires to enter the seminary. And then there's the men who leave the clerical state and whether they should enter a marriage even if they seemingly are mature enough to do so. 
No, penance, penance, penance. 
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Offline Mirari Vos

Re: SSPX, indult, sedevacantist seminarians, priests with annulled marriages?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2021, 10:10:04 AM »
Quote from: Nadir on February 13, 2021, 08:44:55 PM
When you talked about divorce I read divorce and I think divorce and not annulment. They are not the same thing.

I have heard it said, only on CathInfo and nowhere else, that the Church requires a civil divorce, before considering annulment. Maybe that goes for the "American church", but I find it hard to believe that the Holy Roman Catholic Church requires that all men who have annulments must first go to the state to get a divorce.

Maybe you can show evidence for such requirement.
I agree with you, I’m fairly certain that it is not required. I too would like to see evidence to the contrary.
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Offline SimpleMan

Re: SSPX, indult, sedevacantist seminarians, priests with annulled marriages?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2021, 10:51:02 AM »
Quote from: Nadir on February 13, 2021, 08:44:55 PM
When you talked about divorce I read divorce and I think divorce and not annulment. They are not the same thing.

I have heard it said, only on CathInfo and nowhere else, that the Church requires a civil divorce, before considering annulment. Maybe that goes for the "American church", but I find it hard to believe that the Holy Roman Catholic Church requires that all men who have annulments must first go to the state to get a divorce.

Maybe you can show evidence for such requirement.
Without looking it up, I can only guess that even if there is no such requirement in canon law --- which applies to the entire world --- it is some procedural "thing" in the American church.  I would say it is probably to prevent any claims of "alienation of affection" under "heartbalm" laws, where those laws still exist --- you know how litigious Americans are.  But that still doesn't address the question of civilly but invalidly married couples being told by the Church that their marriage is invalid.  Maybe that is why the Church, so far as I am aware, always tries to help couples find some way to regularize their existing civil marriage, not to suggest "hey, you got yourself into this mess of an invalid marriage, you want to be a faithful Catholic, this guy/gal's not helping you and won't help you, in fact, he/she's a hindrance to you, why not make it easy on yourself, get free, get out of this s***show of a concubinage, and find yourself a Catholic mate who will actually help you get to heaven, instead of the alternative?".  I've never heard of such a suggestion being made, though my "think outside the box" tendencies have led me to wonder exactly why.  Some invalidly "married" couples shouldn't try to "regularize" things and drive the nail in even deeper.

All I can say is, when I met with the DRE of my canonical parish (I am not a sedevacantist and I acknowledge that diocesan bishops still possess ordinary jurisdiction and authority, though they often abuse it), one of the first things I was asked for, was a copy of my civil divorce papers.  The questionnaire doesn't even have a space marked "I don't have that yet".  For many reasons, I never followed through.
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Offline Miser Peccator

Re: SSPX, indult, sedevacantist seminarians, priests with annulled marriages?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2021, 05:52:58 PM »
Quote from: SimpleMan on February 14, 2021, 10:51:02 AM
Without looking it up, I can only guess that even if there is no such requirement in canon law --- which applies to the entire world --- it is some procedural "thing" in the American church.  I would say it is probably to prevent any claims of "alienation of affection" under "heartbalm" laws, where those laws still exist --- you know how litigious Americans are.  But that still doesn't address the question of civilly but invalidly married couples being told by the Church that their marriage is invalid.  Maybe that is why the Church, so far as I am aware, always tries to help couples find some way to regularize their existing civil marriage, not to suggest "hey, you got yourself into this mess of an invalid marriage, you want to be a faithful Catholic, this guy/gal's not helping you and won't help you, in fact, he/she's a hindrance to you, why not make it easy on yourself, get free, get out of this s***show of a concubinage, and find yourself a Catholic mate who will actually help you get to heaven, instead of the alternative?".  I've never heard of such a suggestion being made, though my "think outside the box" tendencies have led me to wonder exactly why.  Some invalidly "married" couples shouldn't try to "regularize" things and drive the nail in even deeper.

All I can say is, when I met with the DRE of my canonical parish (I am not a sedevacantist and I acknowledge that diocesan bishops still possess ordinary jurisdiction and authority, though they often abuse it), one of the first things I was asked for, was a copy of my civil divorce papers.  The questionnaire doesn't even have a space marked "I don't have that yet".  For many reasons, I never followed through.
Sigh...the American tribunals do require divorce.
In my case, I fought the annulment by going to three cannon lawyers and Mary's Advocates was a very good source of information and support.
It still went through.
The tribunals do not follow cannon law and most of them have a 100% approval rate of requests for declaration of annulment.
My tribunal kept asking me if I didn't want to find someone else.  ??!
I asked them what on earth that has to do with whether or not my marriage was valid!
So no, they in NO way try to help families stay together.
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Offline SimpleMan

Re: SSPX, indult, sedevacantist seminarians, priests with annulled marriages?
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2021, 06:31:17 PM »
Quote from: Miser Peccator on February 14, 2021, 05:52:58 PM
Sigh...the American tribunals do require divorce.
In my case, I fought the annulment by going to three cannon lawyers and Mary's Advocates was a very good source of information and support.
It still went through.
The tribunals do not follow cannon law and most of them have a 100% approval rate of requests for declaration of annulment.
My tribunal kept asking me if I didn't want to find someone else.  ??!
I asked them what on earth that has to do with whether or not my marriage was valid!
So no, they in NO way try to help families stay together.
They basically "symptom-hunt" and seem to operate on the notion "if your marriage ended [sic] in divorce, then evidently there was something wrong with it from the very beginning, that made it invalid". 

It was just too much of a hassle, and as the years have gone by, "re-"marrying has become less and less of a priority for me.  I have property and investments that I certainly don't wish to "split down the middle" with anyone --- I worked my butt off for 30 years and lived like a miser for about half that long, precisely to fund my retirement --- and my son's welfare has to come before anything else.  Bachelor life is not without its points.  And yes, I've gotten the question "don't you want to find someone else?" time and again.
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