While I am not sure about this show, be careful of the SSPV.  They have usurped the power of the keys, a schismatic act, by binding the consciences of Catholics on the status of the holy orders of the line of Archbishop Thuc.  

Correct.  Other things [not good] could be said as well.  Though I believe you could certainly attend their Masses in good consciences if that is your only legitimate choice and support them minimally while supporting fully another Priest or organization that does not teach any error.

Ralph has the black jeans on and the white sweatshirt.  The man in the navy blue parka directly behind the possessed man, he looks like Joe Forrester, but maybe it isn't.

Ralph would be happy to sit down and talk to you.  He's a New Yorker.  New Yorkers are very open.

Quote from: Ambrose

While I am not sure about this show, be careful of the SSPV.  They have usurped the power of the keys, a schismatic act, by binding the consciences of Catholics on the status of the holy orders of the line of Archbishop Thuc.  

Correct.  Other things [not good] could be said as well.  Though I believe you could certainly attend their Masses in good consciences if that is your only legitimate choice and support them minimally while supporting fully another Priest or organization that does not teach any error.

Yes, I agree that other things could be said, but I chose to mention only this point as the SSPV has made this very public, and it stands as a very grave charge against them.  By mentioning this one charge, I am not saying that this is the only problem with this group.

If a Catholic chooses to attend their masses, I am not one to say that it is a sin.  Each of us has to work through these issues and make the best decisions.  For myself, I would never step foot into their chapels or support them in any way.  Even if their chapel was right next door from my home, I still would have nothing to do with them.  

I have no authority in the Church, so I cannot impose this on other Catholics.  Also, by this I am not accusing the laity of complicity in the crimes of the bishops and priests.

The two most famous episodes of "What Catholics Believe" are undoubtedly the two episodes featuring Patrick J. Buchanan.   They are found here:

"A Catholic Boyhood":

and

"The New Paganism":

Quote from: Ambrose

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Ambrose

While I am not sure about this show, be careful of the SSPV.  They have usurped the power of the keys, a schismatic act, by binding the consciences of Catholics on the status of the holy orders of the line of Archbishop Thuc.  

Correct.  Other things [not good] could be said as well.  Though I believe you could certainly attend their Masses in good consciences if that is your only legitimate choice and support them minimally while supporting fully another Priest or organization that does not teach any error.

Yes, I agree that other things could be said, but I chose to mention only this point as the SSPV has made this very public, and it stands as a very grave charge against them.  By mentioning this one charge, I am not saying that this is the only problem with this group.

If a Catholic chooses to attend their masses, I am not one to say that it is a sin.  Each of us has to work through these issues and make the best decisions.  For myself, I would never step foot into their chapels or support them in any way.  Even if their chapel was right next door from my home, I still would have nothing to do with them.  

I have no authority in the Church, so I cannot impose this on other Catholics.  Also, by this I am not accusing the laity of complicity in the crimes of the bishops and priests.

It really is sad Ambrose.  I don't think people should deprive themselves of the sacraments over the issue yet at the same time I don't think you avoiding them is wrong either.  I know where you are coming from.  Some traditional clergy are disappointing.  

Without making excuses for them.  Who knows what would happen if we were in their shoes.  But all the same the Thuc issue is clear cut and I tend to think they know it.  Otherwise they would have refuted Mario.  But the truth is the truth.  What can they say?  Politics should not be involved when it comes to the salvation of souls.  Do the right thing and live or die with the consequences is the Catholic way.  No competitions or worrying about losing some of your "flock".  But the human race is a stubborn lot.  Has to be our way.  Cannot ever be completely God's way on His terms.  They only make it tougher on themselves, now and in the future.

I agree with everything in your post.  The situation is especially sad as so many Catholics trust the SSPV.  How many families have allowed their children to enter their seminary or their convent?  The SSPV has a heavy burden on them, as they are responsible for those that they lead astray or into schism.

I can tell you with certainty that if I were a member of their organization, I would first protest, and if that would not move them, I would leave.  I have always put the truth and the following of correct principles first.  

Each SSPV priest is individually responsible for following the law of the Church on the reception of Holy Communion.  Each priest is bound to the law of the Church, not some group or group leader with no standing in the Church.

One last point.  There are two separate issues here that are intertwined but are different.  The first is that the validity of the Thuc line orders in question are undoubtably valid.  The book by Mario Derksen and some other published works should convince anyone with an open mind on this dispute that the orders are certainly valid.

The second issue is this:  regardless of whether or not the SSPV leadership believes these orders to be invalid or doubtful, they have absolutely no authority to bind Catholics to their private position.  The SSPV will deny Holy Communion to any Catholic who attends the Mass of priests ordained through the lines of Archbishop Thuc.  This is an act of usurpation by robbing the power of the keys, (an act of jurisdiction), and an act of schism by refusing to allow Catholics to receive Holy Communion because of their worship of God at the Masses of other Catholic priests.

Ambrose:

The second issue is this:  regardless of whether or not the SSPV leadership believes these orders to be invalid or doubtful, they have absolutely no authority to bind Catholics to their private position.  The SSPV will deny Holy Communion to any Catholic who attends the Mass of priests ordained through the lines of Archbishop Thuc.  This is an act of usurpation by robbing the power of the keys, (an act of jurisdiction), and an act of schism by refusing to allow Catholics to receive Holy Communion because of their worship of God at the Masses of other Catholic priests.

I fully agree with you and it is good you stress the second issue.

Speculatively some prefer convenience over truth.  The "we have to believe the Thuc line is invalid or else" mentality.  Others prefer culpable ignorance over truth.  The "I don't want to read Mario's treatise because he might be right" mentality.

Of course we cannot know for sure and they may really believe what they foist on their unsuspecting flock.  Though I doubt it while admitting I could be wrong.  

LoT,
If you drive really far for confirmation and they find out about it, you may find yourself barred from receiving Holy Communion.

SSPX is such a mixed bag, isn't it? I never know what to expect when I deal with them.

And that is the story of the CMRI, since they reformed, everyone bashes them and complains about them. I know people who even hold them wrong for their dealing with Shukhardt in the end.

Such is the life of Catholics today.