Author Topic: John Salza on Sedevacantism (Read 10111 times)

MyrnaM · « **Reply #90 on:** April 11, 2011, 08:02:05 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Quote from: MyrnaM
Steveusmagnus, do you believe that your pope is a traditional or liberal pope?

This question betrays one of the fundamental problems of sede thinking. Black and white! No nuance. No distinctions.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

He is Traditional in his liturgical preferences and the fact that he sticks to Traditional morality and keeps Catholic dogmas.

At the same time he has kept the post-VCII novelties and liberal options for liturgy and is a big believer in ecuмenism and religious liberty. He is a mix!

Shame, shame on Stevus who dares to judge HIS pope.

SJB · « **Reply #91 on:** April 11, 2011, 01:01:49 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

I think it is saying the fact that he is not Pope must be confirmed or declared by the Church so the faithful will know it with certainty. This prevents Prot private judgment from taking over and people deciding for themselves.

Yes, that would be absolute certainty based on an official declaration by the Church. One can reach a moral certainty prior to that however. Both are true certainty.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #92 on:** April 11, 2011, 01:15:32 PM »

That is just another meaningless distinction, according to stevus' understanding.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #93 on:** April 12, 2011, 09:26:50 AM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: stevusmagnus
I think it is saying the fact that he is not Pope must be confirmed or declared by the Church so the faithful will know it with certainty. This prevents Prot private judgment from taking over and people deciding for themselves.

Yes, that would be absolute certainty based on an official declaration by the Church. One can reach a moral certainty prior to that however. Both are true certainty.

I disagree. That would lead to a subjective judgment and assessment, which leads to each Catholic making erroneous judgments for themselves and relying on them to a moral certainty.

SJB · « **Reply #94 on:** April 12, 2011, 09:52:52 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Quote from: SJB
Quote from: stevusmagnus
I think it is saying the fact that he is not Pope must be confirmed or declared by the Church so the faithful will know it with certainty. This prevents Prot private judgment from taking over and people deciding for themselves.

Yes, that would be absolute certainty based on an official declaration by the Church. One can reach a moral certainty prior to that however. Both are true certainty.

I disagree. That would lead to a subjective judgment and assessment, which leads to each Catholic making erroneous judgments for themselves and relying on them to a moral certainty.

Well stevus, you are saying, without realizing it, the only certainty is absolute certainty. This is wrong.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #95 on:** April 12, 2011, 09:58:25 AM »

That's not what I'm saying at all. You're saying we can all know that BXVI is not pope to a moral certainty which is absurd. It is a justification of a subjective private judgment in an attempt to make it appear objective.

SJB · « **Reply #96 on:** April 12, 2011, 10:20:43 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

That's not what I'm saying at all. You're saying we can all know that BXVI is not pope to a moral certainty which is absurd. It is a justification of a subjective private judgment in an attempt to make it appear objective.

This statement indicates that you do not understand the difference between moral and absolute certainty.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #97 on:** April 12, 2011, 10:22:47 AM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: stevusmagnus
That's not what I'm saying at all. You're saying we can all know that BXVI is not pope to a moral certainty which is absurd. It is a justification of a subjective private judgment in an attempt to make it appear objective.

This statement indicates that you do not understand the difference between moral and absolute certainty.

Please do demonstrate how.

SJB · « **Reply #98 on:** April 12, 2011, 10:36:44 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Quote from: SJB
Quote from: stevusmagnus
That's not what I'm saying at all. You're saying we can all know that BXVI is not pope to a moral certainty which is absurd. It is a justification of a subjective private judgment in an attempt to make it appear objective.

This statement indicates that you do not understand the difference between moral and absolute certainty.

Please do demonstrate how.

You've aready demonstrated it.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #99 on:** April 12, 2011, 11:14:20 AM »

As I suspected, an empty charge with no substance to back it up.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #100 on:** April 12, 2011, 11:43:42 AM »

No, stevie, you just do not grasp how fitting his reply is.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #101 on:** April 12, 2011, 04:02:28 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

No, stevie, you just do not grasp how fitting his reply is.

If I were him (and you) I'd avoid any substance as well. It's a losing prospect.

SJB · « **Reply #102 on:** April 12, 2011, 04:24:24 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Quote from: gladius_veritatis
No, stevie, you just do not grasp how fitting his reply is.

If I were him (and you) I'd avoid any substance as well. It's a losing prospect.

The substance is there, but I can't help you, stevus.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #103 on:** April 12, 2011, 04:33:30 PM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: stevusmagnus
Quote from: gladius_veritatis
No, stevie, you just do not grasp how fitting his reply is.

If I were him (and you) I'd avoid any substance as well. It's a losing prospect.

The substance is there, but I can't help you, stevus.

Yes. It is there, just like the Emporer's new clothes.. :king: