Author Topic: Spiritual Illness of Sedevacantism (Read 3809 times)

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #15 on:** April 10, 2011, 10:52:34 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

A good post up until this paragraph. First of all, no one here actually denies the h0Ɩ0cαųst.

Really? How do you know this?

In any case, I think you should examine more of the evidence on the birth issue.

Here is another link.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42519951/ns/politics-more_politics/#

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2011, 07:53:59 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

SV-ism and the Society position are not two attempts to save indefectability. Rigorist sedes throw it out the window, Plenists dance around it with technicalities. The Society position is the only one of the three which preserves it.

While I understand that you believe the SSPX position is the only one that successfully preserves indefectibility, you seem to be oblivious to the monumentally-obvious fact that ALL of the respective 'solutions' are trying to address the same problem. This is the exact reason I hammered you before. Yes, your tone here seems to be notably better, but you do not accurately present (or even grasp?) what your 'opponents' are saying/claiming.

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Explain away and correct my understanding once and for all.

That is too great an unlikelihood for me to invest the necessary time.

Exhibit A is immediately above.

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I'M in the Matrix drinking the kool-aid while you and the elite few with secret knowledge (Gnosticism anyone?) have had your eyes opened to the fact that the h0Ɩ0cαųst was a hoax, the moon landing was staged, 9/11 was an international fraud, Obama is not president, Jєωιѕн bankers run the world, oh..AND God rigged it so we haven't had a pope for 50 years and let His Church turn into a heretical whorehouse of iniquity. Got it.

Denial is not a pretty thing to behold. BTW, have you ever read about what God allowed during the OT era? You might be surprised.

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By the way, have you ever thought the Bishops and Priests of the Sede movement just might have a little self-interest in perpetuating the idea that we have no pope?

Of course -- I know some of the most self-serving far better than I would like. What do you think the Ode to Reality was all about?

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2011, 08:08:52 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Oh, I forgot the 9/11 conspiracy. Does sedevacantism lend itself to EVERY conspiracy?

SVs are far from alone in believing there are myriad cօռspιʀαcιҽs. Many within and outside Traddieland also do so.

FWIW, Our Lord was executed as the result of a conspiracy.

Do you believe we're in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya merely to do wonderful, humanitarian work? Do you believe the economic booms and busts are just a natural, accidental thing? Do you know anything about the private nature of the Federal Reserve Bank, the manner in which USDs are created, etc?

The reason various ideas have gained currency is...the evidence to support them. Sure, most people are still more worried about iphones, sports, t&a, whatever, but more and more are seeking the truth as each day passes.

Jitpring · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2011, 11:56:27 AM »

I have a lot of empathy with sedevacantists. I've been heading in that direction myself lately. But is sedevacantism from hell? This is my worry.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #19 on:** April 11, 2011, 01:19:58 PM »

Quote from: Jitpring

But is sedevacantism from hell? This is my worry.

The only question is: Is it true? If so, it is clearly NOT from hell, etc.

Can Holy Church devour her own children? Can she, through binding or non-binding things, ruin the Faith of millions? If so, why does she exist and what good are the divine safeguards?

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #20 on:** April 11, 2011, 01:28:16 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
A good post up until this paragraph. First of all, no one here actually denies the h0Ɩ0cαųst.

Really? How do you know this?

In any case, I think you should examine more of the evidence on the birth issue.

Here is another link.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42519951/ns/politics-more_politics/#

No one here that I know of denies it. In any case, you didn't say why you think Obama was validly elected.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #21 on:** April 11, 2011, 01:32:57 PM »

Quote from: Jitpring

I have a lot of empathy with sedevacantists. I've been heading in that direction myself lately. But is sedevacantism from hell? This is my worry.

I also have empathy for sedes. Sedevacantism isn't from hell, although there are a few errors with it that need to be ironed out. In any case, I may one day find myself taking the sede position. Archbishop LeFebvre almost did, it's certainly possible the time may come when we must declare that the man in Peter's Chair is not Pope. I have already come to the conclusion that Paul VI was an anti-pope. Chances are he was a freemason, and a freemson cannot be Pope. He even went to the United Nations, a place with Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr written all over it. Not to mention that if there was indeed a second Paul VI, that would make him an anti-pope since he wasn't even elected. Either way, there is absolutely no way I can say Paul VI was a legit Pope. I have given it much thought, and I just can't do it.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #22 on:** April 11, 2011, 01:34:03 PM »

He eschews all conspiracy theories, despite the fact that nothing in the world happens by accident and all the major events of history were the result of men working together.

Zenith · « **Reply #23 on:** April 11, 2011, 06:08:55 PM »

Stevus I take it that you being on a Traditional Catholic forum consider yourself a traditional Catholic and thus you must see that Rome has been infected with many errors particularly modernism. So you believe that this could happen to the Church but you don't believe that there could be people or organisations in the outside world conspiring for more power and control?

You really must live in some fairy land if you think this could not happen in this world which is the playground of the devil.

So the Church can be corrupted but the secular world is hunky dory?

What will be next for you? The devil doesn't exist?

Wake up and smell the roses or stench more accurately!

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 11, 2011, 06:29:12 PM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Quote from: SJB
Quote from: stevusmagnus
6.2.1 is exactly what Caminus was saying.

6.2.1 is exactly describing you the past few days.

Am I a sede?

Believe me, I'm not obsessed over whether BXVI is Pope. I think that is obvious.

I am fascinated, however, by those who could actually truly believe God has allowed a universal deception for 50 years and left His Church headless, defectible, and invisible.

Yes, I know the typical sede responses to these claims, but they are not reasonable nor beilevable. I'm truly fascinated that this position could be held by otherwise rational adults. I'm also beginning to see that sede-ism is typically coupled with belief in other conspiracy theories such as h0Ɩ0cαųst denial, denial of moon landings, denial Obama is president, the world being controlled by Jєωιѕн bankers, etc. It seems there is an underlying cynical, delusional and paranoid worldview that must fuel such perceptions which are so at odds with reality. Sorry if these words are offensive, but I see no other way to describe this outlook, even if those who hold it are sincere and otherwise sane. I think this article raises some good explanations.

You are a worldling, stevus.

God will make due with you in time. Don't delude yourself and try to lead others to perdition as well.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #25 on:** April 12, 2011, 01:51:50 AM »

Quote from: Jitpring

I have a lot of empathy with sedevacantists. I've been heading in that direction myself lately. But is sedevacantism from hell? This is my worry.

It is indeed from the bowels of Hell. It is a trick that plays on your anger at the NO. It uses it as fuel to have you fly past all logical barriers into the pit of cynicism, hatred, and despair that is Sede-ism. Pretty soon you'll be cursing BXVI as the sinners in Hell curse God and asking how He could have put you on this Hellish earth ruled by a myriad of secret cօռspιʀαcιҽs with no visible Church and 99% of Catholics ruled by anti-Christ. But in reality you would have put yourself in this false reality by letting your anger overcome your intellect until you can no longer think clearly. Just like how sinners become damned. Your Bishops and priests will more than likely have doubtful orders, offer you doubtful sacraments, in some cases use access to the sacraments as a weapon, steal church property, brag about it, cause scandal. This all leads to despair and a complete lack of Faith. All because you didn't take the time to pray humbly and ask for the grace to see clearly that there are logical distinctions to be made and not all Popes are saints or necessarily good. But as St. Catherine of Siena said, they are our "sweet Christ on earth".

Turn away now, while there is still time.

SJB · « **Reply #26 on:** April 12, 2011, 07:01:11 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Quote from: Jitpring
I have a lot of empathy with sedevacantists. I've been heading in that direction myself lately. But is sedevacantism from hell? This is my worry.

It is indeed from the bowels of Hell. It is a trick that plays on your anger at the NO. It uses it as fuel to have you fly past all logical barriers into the pit of cynicism, hatred, and despair that is Sede-ism. Pretty soon you'll be cursing BXVI as the sinners in Hell curse God and asking how He could have put you on this Hellish earth ruled by a myriad of secret cօռspιʀαcιҽs with no visible Church and 99% of Catholics ruled by anti-Christ. But in reality you would have put yourself in this false reality by letting your anger overcome your intellect until you can no longer think clearly. Just like how sinners become damned. Your Bishops and priests will more than likely have doubtful orders, offer you doubtful sacraments, in some cases use access to the sacraments as a weapon, steal church property, brag about it, cause scandal. This all leads to despair and a complete lack of Faith. All because you didn't take the time to pray humbly and ask for the grace to see clearly that there are logical distinctions to be made and not all Popes are saints or necessarily good. But as St. Catherine of Siena said, they are our "sweet Christ on earth".

Turn away now, while there is still time.

Sorry to see that you've fallen off the wagon.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #27 on:** April 12, 2011, 07:47:07 AM »

Indeed not. I'm criticizing Sede-ism, not individuals.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #28 on:** April 12, 2011, 08:04:51 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Quote from: Jitpring
I have a lot of empathy with sedevacantists. I've been heading in that direction myself lately. But is sedevacantism from hell? This is my worry.

It is indeed from the bowels of Hell. It is a trick that plays on your anger at the NO. It uses it as fuel to have you fly past all logical barriers into the pit of cynicism, hatred, and despair that is Sede-ism. Pretty soon you'll be cursing BXVI as the sinners in Hell curse God and asking how He could have put you on this Hellish earth ruled by a myriad of secret cօռspιʀαcιҽs with no visible Church and 99% of Catholics ruled by anti-Christ. But in reality you would have put yourself in this false reality by letting your anger overcome your intellect until you can no longer think clearly. Just like how sinners become damned. Your Bishops and priests will more than likely have doubtful orders, offer you doubtful sacraments, in some cases use access to the sacraments as a weapon, steal church property, brag about it, cause scandal. This all leads to despair and a complete lack of Faith. All because you didn't take the time to pray humbly and ask for the grace to see clearly that there are logical distinctions to be made and not all Popes are saints or necessarily good. But as St. Catherine of Siena said, they are our "sweet Christ on earth".

Turn away now, while there is still time.

Does the above mean you regret the apology of a few days ago to the sede???

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #29 on:** April 12, 2011, 09:30:53 AM »

I never apologized to sede-ism.