Author Topic: Some Sedevacantists are INSANE (Read 2107 times)

Matthew · « **on:** March 08, 2010, 05:56:47 PM »

I just had an e-mail exchange with a customer, who asked to be unsubscribed from my GREGORIAN CHANT e-mail list because I'm not personally a sedevacantist.

Here is the exchange:

1. Sedevacantist wrote:

Quote

I want to unsubscribe from your e-mail list because...I don't know if you support
the Novus Ordo Church and Benedict XVI. If you do, I want no part of your
organization. I am a traditionalist Roman Catholic, i.e pre-Vatican II.

2. I responded:

Quote

I am a Traditional Catholic as well.

That's why ChantCd.com only carries pre-Vatican II CDs and books.

Do you still wish to unsubscribe?

God bless,

Matthew

3. Sedevacantist wrote back:

Quote

I assume from your answer that you do not regard Benedict XVI as a true Vicar of Christ, correct?

Do you belong to attend the Masses of any particular group? If so, which ? I don't mean to be
intrusive, but there are too many groups that support Benedict but remove that information from
their mailings because they know that it will reduce donations to them.

4. I wrote back:

Quote

I only sell traditional Gregorian chant, in Latin, by Catholics who know how to sing it.
If a Novus Ordo or Indult group attempted Chant, but didn't do a good job, I wouldn't sell their CDs.

I attend the SSPX myself.

I've had a few people refuse to buy my CDs because the SSPX isn't in communion with Rome, etc.
Now it sounds like you're going to boycott my products for the OPPOSITE reason -- because I'm too "Novus Ordo" -- even though I don't sell anything you couldn't hear in 1920.

So it sounds like I can't win! I'm schismatic to those on the left, and Novus Ordo to those on the right.

At any rate, I'd like to ask you what difference it makes. Listening to good Chant isn't going to do anything to your faith except make it stronger!

I firmly believe that Gregorian chant has no politics. Gregorian chant is Gregorian chant. Like a beautiful picture of Our Lord, or a Rosary -- it has no "affiliation" except to the Catholic Church of all time.

I can understand being picky about where you attend Mass, the Catholic company you keep, or even the books you read -- but Gregorian chant?
How can Chant be schismatic, or Novus Ordo? (unless, of course, the CD contains Greek Orthodox chant or modern Novus Ordo hymns!)

Does your religious art provider have to be Sedevacantist as well? How about your rosary maker? To me, all these things are politics-neutral.

I'm not sure what kind of support you think I'm giving to Benedict XVI. He's not getting any of the proceeds from these CDs, if that's what you mean.
I maintain my Catholic Faith outside of the "mainstream" structure of the Catholic Church, as you do. I pray for him, from a motive of Catholic charity.
Catholics are only allowed to hate the devils in Hell -- but not any humans, since we don't know for sure what humans lost their souls.

I hope you understand.

God bless,

Matthew

5. Sedevacantist responded:

Quote

Yes, I do understand, but I gather from your comments that you support Benedict because
the SSPX does. I left the SSPX a few years ago because of Bp. Fellay's determination to
reunite with Modernist Rome. I don't want to have any dealings that remind me of the
SSPX. or the current non-Catholic Vatican. I, too, pray for the apostates who have betrayed
Our Lord. I hope you understand also.
God Bless You

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2010, 06:01:56 PM »

It baffles my mind how someone could be this unreasonable.

Does he have any religious art in his home? Any TAN Books? Any Gregorian chant? Any rosaries?

I bet you he has plenty of Catholic merchandise in his home that wasn't sold by a company that has renounced Benedict XVI (and the other post-Vatican II popes) in writing, or that has an official Sedevacantist position.

Sorry, but your house is going to be empty if you restrict yourself to only "sedevacantist Catholic goods" dealers. Traditional Catholic goods are hard enough to find!

For crying out loud, a Rosary can't be schismatic OR Novus Ordo! Unless it has 20 decades, a Divine Mercy medal, or the JPII cross, it's simply a Rosary! You know, that thing that will help us get to heaven!

Same goes for a devout art print of Our Lord. Unless it's done in a modern style, it's not Novus Ordo OR out of communion with the Pope. An art print can't be in communion with anything! It's an art print. It reminds you of Our Lord. That's all it does. It doesn't hold a position on Pope Benedict XVI, NFP, or EENS.

The same goes for Gregorian chant. As long as it's chanted well, in a traditional style, and the text/melody is from the 1962 Liber Usualis, it's traditional Gregorian Chant. End of story. It doesn't matter if it was recorded by the Angelicuм in Rome, the Fraternity of St. Peter, Institute of Christ the King, the SSPX, SSPV, or the sedevacantist Daughters of Mary.

What, is chant by the FSSP going to brainwash me into the Novus Ordo? How? I'd really like to know how.

And how is SSPX chant going to damage my status with the mainstream structure of the Catholic Church? Am I going to get schismatic cooties from having it in my CD player? Some people seem to think so.

These people are ready to shoot their own face off they are so frustrated and weary of the Crisis in the Church. I suppose I should feel sorry for them, rather than be frustrated by their lack of reasonableness.

Matthew

MaterDominici · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2010, 06:31:30 PM »

#3 amuses me because I think it is the OPPOSITE which is true. I'm sure advertising that a product comes from a sedevacantist group would decrease sales.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 08, 2010, 06:55:41 PM »

I'm sort of obsessed with this issue of dirty money and compromise right now.

A lot of people worry about Obama's health-care bill passing because tax dollars will go towards abortion. Well, continue with that logic. Do you ever buy food or necessary items at a store that sells condoms? Do you ever support gas stations where pornography is sold? Does your health-insurance fund abortions? Mine does, for mothers whose life is at risk ( which is still wrong ). If yours doesn't, it surely funds unnecessary vasectomies and things like that.

What about the Internet, by paying the cable company aren't we abetting porn? If you have a job where you're not allowed to wear any symbol of Christ and Mary are you denying God?

How much compromise is acceptable? Is any of this acceptable or is this the mark of the beast -- are we all doomed? Is this what Christ is saying when He says that unless those days will be shortened no flesh will be saved? All I know is we should do the best we can to avoid compromise, but I don't see any possible way to avoid all of it, even if we were homeless. Yes, believe it or not, I have considered rushing out into the street like a madman and living off handouts, perhaps preaching from atop a billboard or something like that. But even then, to buy soap somewhere with my pocket change, I'd still be supporting evil, because where do you buy soap that doesn't also sell porn, condoms, etc.? I am feeling incredibly trapped.

You have to be careful with this kind of thinking because it will drive you bonkers. It is worse for me because I am trying to get a job and I am trying to figure out where to work, with no resume, at age 33, where I won't have to work at Sunday and where they'll allow me to wear my Miraculous Medal. So for now I've decided to go to school, maybe online school to get a vet technician degree, since if I have to work on Sunday then it is an emergency ( pulling the sheep out of a ditch on Sunday ).

This is what rattles around in my head all the time. How to remain clean, how not to compromise in today's society. Oh, and on top of all that, right now I'm living off my mom's money and her job was one of the worst jobs possible from the Catholic perspective, teaching in the pagan school system, opening up a whole new can of worms. When you convert, are you supposed to just give up your immoral old job -- which she did, sort of, essentially getting depressed and having to leave -- or do you also have to give up all the money you made in that job as well?

In the face of all this, buying a CD from someone in the SSPX pales in comparison. But I actually have had the problem this guy has. Even to give charity to someone in the SSPX essentially helps the SSPX. Yes, some of them are Catholics, but they are Catholics supporting anti-Christs. They also vociferously defend this support of anti-Christs.

There is a good solution -- everyone should be sedevacantist. Then we could all pool together and maybe have one of those local economies going, live like the Amish.

sedetrad · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2010, 07:34:02 PM »

Raoul,

I'll say this as nicely as i can, but i think you are losing touch with reality.

Andrew

Matthew · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2010, 07:58:22 PM »

Yeah, this guy probably has ZERO PROBLEM with supporting atheists, heretics, and pagans when he buys his groceries every week.

But buy a Chant CD from a Catholic family man who attends the SSPX and WATCH OUT!

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2010, 08:44:03 PM »

Quote from: Raoul76

There is a good solution -- everyone should be sedevacantist. Then we could all pool together and maybe have one of those local economies going, live like the Amish.

Traddieland bubble-world, eh? No thanks. We are to be IN the world but not OF the world -- NOT create parallel 'worlds' that are detached from reality.

sedetrad · « **Reply #7 on:** March 08, 2010, 09:10:57 PM »

Gladius,

we could all move to the sgg paradise on earth. LOL :bob-marley: :smoke-pot:

Ladislaus · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2010, 07:28:14 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

Yeah, this guy probably has ZERO PROBLEM with supporting atheists, heretics, and pagans when he buys his groceries every week.

But buy a Chant CD from a Catholic family man who attends the SSPX and WATCH OUT!

Yeah, that's where sedevacantism, especially this radical kind, definitely pushes the envelope in terms of being schismatic.

Clovis · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2010, 08:30:46 AM »

Quote from: Raoul76

Even to give charity to someone in the SSPX essentially helps the SSPX. Yes, some of them are Catholics, but they are Catholics supporting anti-Christs. They also vociferously defend this support of anti-Christs.
.

Do you mean when you give alms you ask the person for a confession of faith? You only believe in giving charity to people in the Truth?

Clovis · « **Reply #10 on:** March 09, 2010, 08:46:03 AM »

Quote from: sedetrad

Raoul,

I'll say this as nicely as i can, but i think you are losing touch with reality.

Andrew

Shades of Tertullian. You can fall into heresy (and many have) by being to "rigorist" or "right-wing" as much as you can through laxity and wanting to "modernize".

TheD · « **Reply #11 on:** March 09, 2010, 09:02:26 AM »

With 10 ignores Raoul has practically banned himself!

sedetrad · « **Reply #12 on:** March 09, 2010, 02:45:34 PM »

TheD, lets not be nasty. Raoul is a new convert and is trying to find his way in the darkness like the rest of us.

Andy

Matthew · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2010, 02:53:23 PM »

Quote from: TheD

With 10 ignores Raoul has practically banned himself!

10 is "above average", but let's keep it in perspective: it's only 10 people. That means everyone else is reading his posts.

CathInfo certainly has a lot more active membership than 10 people. Probably at least 20 times that. And that doesn't count members who check in occasionally, or the many lurkers who haven't signed up yet.

Matthew

Ladislaus · « **Reply #14 on:** March 09, 2010, 05:53:33 PM »

I for one enjoy your posts, Raoul, even if I don't agree with you about everything.