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Author Topic: Society of the Virgin Mary  (Read 4677 times)

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Offline Vladimir

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Society of the Virgin Mary
« on: November 05, 2011, 10:32:30 AM »
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  • This thread is not intended to start a debate.

    Does anyone have more info about the Society of the Virgin Mary and their Bishop ?

    http://svmpriests.us/index.htm




    Offline Pyrrhos

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    « Reply #1 on: November 05, 2011, 11:19:19 AM »
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  • Not too much.

    Only, that their bishop was ordained by an old-catholic bishop and consecrated by a Duarte-Costa-line bishop. These folks are rather shady and, according to the opinion of pretty much everybody, of extremely doubtful validity.
    If you are a theologian, you truly pray, and if you truly pray, you are a theologian. - Evagrius Ponticus


    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #2 on: November 05, 2011, 11:58:49 AM »
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  • Actually, they're not as shady as some try to make them seem. I don't attend their society (nor have I ever), but know a bit about them. Remember, just because a line comes from a schismatic line, doesn't mean its invalid. As long as the ordained/ consecrated is teaching Roman Catholicism and professes to be Roman Catholic, and you can trace his validity, thats going to be important. If you can't do this, or are not yet well versed enough in being able to determine this, its better to stay with SSPX, CMRI or their affiliates. Here's +Taylor's Episcopal lineage:

    Old Catholic line

    1. Arnold hαɾɾιs Matthew (1908): a former Roman Catholic priest ordained a bishop by the schismatic sect, the Old Catholic Church of Utrecht.

    2. Arthur William Howarth (1910): an Anglican bishop who was ordained with the –pre- 1968] traditional Roman Pontifical.

    3. Ignatius [William Albert] Nichols (1933): a former Episcopalian priest convert to Eastern Orthodoxy who possessed a Russian Orthodox line from his 1932 episcopal ordination by Archbishop Aftimios Ofiesh. Then in 1933, he received conditional episcopal ordination from Bishop Arthur Howarth, an Anglican bishop with valid orders using a schismatic Ordinal.

    4. Theodotus [Stanislaus Witowski] DeWitow (1936): participated with two Orthodox bishops at the episcopal ordination of Walter Myron Propheta.

    5. Patriarch Wolodymyr [Walter Myron Propheta] (1964): Archbishop Walter
    Propheta, a Ukranian Orthodox priest was consecrated by Archbishop Joachim Souris, a Greek Orthodox prelate with a Russian Orthodox line and assisted by Archbishop Theodotus DeWitow. Personal contemporary of J. Edgard Hoover. Recognized as valid since 1965 by Cardinal Francis Spellman, the Archbishop of New York and his successor, Cardinal Terrence Cooke.

    6. Francis Joseph Ryan (1969): possesses an Old Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Russian Orthodox lines after receiving episcopal ordination from Archbishop Propheta. Through co- consecrator, Carey Leopold Presson, Bishop Ryan also has an Ethiopian Orthodox and Brazilian Catholic line from Bishop Carlos Duarte Costa, officially recognized as valid by the Vatican
    since 1954.

    7. Denis Michel Garrison (1985): Archbishop Denis Michel Garrison is an Eastern
    Orthodox prelate possessing an Old Catholic line, Greek Orthodox line, Russian Orthodox line, and a Brazilian Catholic line.

    8. Paul Dolan (1987): co-consecrated Bishop Patrick Taylor with Archbishop Garrison and Bishop Michael Boucher.

    9. Patrick Taylor (1993): a Roman Catholic priest who was ordained a bishop by Archbishop Denis Michel Garrison. He was later conditionally ordained by sedevacantist prelate, Bishop Merril Adamson in 2001. Bishop Adamson was conditionally ordained by sedevacantist prelate, Bishop Jose Gaston Ramon Lopez.


    Russian Orthodox line

    1. Macarius [Makarij] Michael Neveskij (1884): Metropolitan of Moscow who was murdered by the Communists during the Russian Revolution.

    2. Evdokim Basil Mikhailovich Mechersky (1903): Russian Orthodox archbishop of Alaska and Dean of the Moscow Theological Academy.

    3. Aftimios [Abdullah] Ofiesh (1917): consecrated in the Russian Orthodox Cathedral of St. Nicholas in New York.

    4. Sophronios Bishara (1928): American Orthodox bishop of Los Angeles.

    5. Christopher Contogeorge [Kontogiorgios] (1934)


    6. Arsenias Saltas (1934): Exarch in America of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria.

    7. Joseph Klimovicz [Klimovitch] (1935)


    8.Joachim Souris (1951)


    9. Patriarch Wolodymyr [Walter Myron Propheta] (1964): Archbishop Walter Propheta, a Ukranian Orthodox priest was ordained by Archbishop Joachim Souris, a Greek Orthodox prelate (with a Russian Orthodox line) and assisted by Archbishop Theodotus DeWitow. Personal contemporary of J. Edgard Hoover. Recognized as valid since 1965 by Cardinal Francis Spellman, the Archbishop of New York and his successor, Cardinal Terrence Cooke.

    10. Francis Joseph Ryan (1969): appointed auxiliary bishop for the Orthodox diocese of New York. Through co-consecrator, Carey Leopold Presson, Bishop Ryan has an Ethiopian Orthodox line and a Brazilian Catholic line recognized by the Vatican to be valid since 1954.

    11.Denis Michel Garrison (1985): Archbishop Denis Michel Garrison is an Eastern Orthodox prelate possessing an Old Catholic line, Greek Orthodox line, Russian Orthodox line, and a Brazilian Catholic line.

    12. Patrick Taylor (1993): a Roman Catholic priest who was ordained a bishop by Archbishop Denis Michel Garrison. He was later conditionally ordained by sedevacantist prelate, Bishop Merril Adamson in 2001. Bishop Adamson was conditionally ordained by sedevacantist prelate, Bishop Jose Gaston Ramon Lopez (whose validity is recognized by the Society of St. Pius X).


    Second Russian Orthodox Line

    1.
    Macarius [Makarij] Michael Neveskij (1884): Metropolitan of Moscow who was
    murdered by the Communists during the Russian Revolution.

    2.
    Evdokim Basil Mikhailovich Mechersky (1903): Russian Orthodox archbishop of Alaska and Dean of the Moscow Theological Academy.

    3.
    Aftimios [Abdullah] Ofiesh (1917): consecrated in the Russian Orthodox Cathedral of St. Nicholas in New York.

    4.
    Ignatius [William Albert] Nichols (1933): a former Episcopalian priest convert to Eastern Orthodoxy who possessed a Russian Orthodox line from his 1932 episcopal ordination by Archbishop Aftimios Ofiesh. Then in 1933, he received conditional episcopal ordination from Bishop Arthur Howarth, an Anglican bishop conditionally consecrated by Old Catholic prelate, Bishop Arnold hαɾɾιs Matthew using the Roman Pontifical.

    5.
    Theodotus [Stanislaus Witowski] DeWitow (1936): participated with two Orthodox bishops at the episcopal ordination of Walter Myron Propheta.

    6.
    Patriarch Wolodymyr [Walter Myron Propheta] (1964): Archbishop Walter
    Propheta, a Ukranian Orthodox priest was consecrated by Archbishop Joachim Souris, a Greek Orthodox prelate with a Russian Orthodox line and assisted by Archbishop Theodotus DeWitow. Personal contemporary of J. Edgard Hoover. Recognized as valid since 1965 by Cardinal Francis Spellman, the Archbishop of New York and his successor, Cardinal Terrence Cooke.

    7.
    Francis Joseph Ryan (1969): possesses an Old Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Russian Orthodox lines after receiving episcopal ordination from Archbishop Propheta. Through co- consecrator, Carey Leopold Presson, Bishop Ryan also has an Ethiopian Orthodox and Brazilian Catholic line from Bishop Carlos Duarte Costa, officially recognized as valid by the Vatican
    since 1954.

    8.
    Denis Michel Garrison (1985): Archbishop Denis Michel Garrison is an Eastern
    Orthodox prelate possessing an Old Catholic line, Greek Orthodox line, Russian Orthodox line, and a Brazilian Catholic line.

    9.
    Patrick Taylor (1993): a Roman Catholic priest who was ordained a bishop by Archbishop Denis Michel Garrison. He was later conditionally ordained by sedevacantist prelate, Bishop Merril Adamson in 2001. Bishop Adamson was conditionally ordained by sedevacantist prelate, Bishop Jose Gaston Ramon Lopez.

    Roman Catholic and schismatic Brazilian Catholic lines

    1. Mariano Rampolla (1882): Cardinal Mariano Rampolla, an excommunicated Freemason who served as Vatican Secretary of State to Pope Leo XIII.

    2. Joaquim Acrcoverde de Albuquerque Cavalcanti (1890): appointed cardinal by Pope St. Pius X.

    3. Sebastian Leme da Silveira Cintra (1911) appointed cardinal by Pope Pius XI.


    4. Carlos Duarte Costa (1924): A former diocesan bishop who was excommunicated and declared vitandus by Pope Pius XII for creating a schismatic sect called the Brazilian Catholic Church. Coincidentally, his episcopal lineage comes from an excommunicated Catholic bishop.

    5. Salamao Ferraz (1945): Originally a Protestant minister, he was consecrated a bishop by Bishop Duarte Costa and later became Roman Catholic under Pius XII. He did not receive conditional episcopal ordination and was allowed to keep his wife, whom he married before his conversion. In 1961, Pope John XXIII appointed him auxiliary bishop for the Archdiocese of Rio de Janeiro and served as Council Father at the Second Vatican Council.

    6. Esteban Mayer Corradi-Scarella (1945): established a schismatic sect in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Msgr. Duarte Costa participated as co-consecrator at his episcopal ordination.

    7. Emile Frederico Rodriguez Fairfield (1954)


    8. Robert Norton (1974)


    9. Francis Jerome Joachim (1974)

    10. Justo Roque Gonzalez-Trimino (1974)



    11. Carey Leopold Presson (1983)

    12. Denis Michel Garrison (1985): Archbishop Denis Michel Garrison is an Eastern
    Orthodox prelate possessing an Old Catholic line, Greek Orthodox line, Russian Orthodox line, and a Brazilian Catholic line.

    13. Patrick Taylor (1993): a Roman Catholic priest who was ordained a bishop by Archbishop Denis Michel Garrison. He was later conditionally ordained by sedevacantist prelate, Bishop Merril Adamson in 2001. Bishop Adamson was conditionally ordained by sedevacantist prelate, Bishop Jose Gaston Ramon Lopez.

    Offline Pyrrhos

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    « Reply #3 on: November 05, 2011, 01:14:53 PM »
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  • You are right in saying that schismatical sacraments are not automatically invalid.

    As far as I know, American old-catholics are of doubtful validity, while the Utrecht Union had valid orders. The lines you posted are rather strange.
    If you are a theologian, you truly pray, and if you truly pray, you are a theologian. - Evagrius Ponticus

    Offline Sigismund

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    « Reply #4 on: November 05, 2011, 11:24:07 PM »
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  • Yes.  I would say that any American Old Catholic groups except the Polish National Catholic Church should be seen as doubtful.  They may well be valid, but it is usually impossible to sort everything out to the extent that one can be sure.  

    If anyone is interested, goodle Bishop Aftimos Ofiesh mentioned above.  His is a fascinating and sad story.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir