Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist  (Read 47522 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ambrose

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3447
  • Reputation: +2429/-13
  • Gender: Male
So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
« Reply #180 on: July 05, 2013, 05:26:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    * What do you think of the various priests/bishops who seem to be fearless in their defense of the Faith, though they are not sedevacantist? For example: Bishop Williamson, and many SSPX priests (though there are countless others!)


    I respect all of the traditionalist clergy who defend the faith, and who have sacrificed their life to bring the sacraments to those in need.

    Many of these clergy travel long distances on a regular basis I to say mass for Catholics who would otherwise not have the sacraments.

    They deserve our respect and support.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline Ambrose

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3447
    • Reputation: +2429/-13
    • Gender: Male
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #181 on: July 05, 2013, 05:32:20 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    * Should we actually hate the pope? The modernist (or all) cardinals? Bishops? Catholics who are not sedevacantist?


    No, we must not hate the antipope, the conciliar cardinals and bishops.  What good would that do?  

    Our Lord said to love our enemies, not hate them.  We should pray for their conversion, and leave them to their final judge, Our Lord, who will judge them with justice and eternal consequences.
     
    I hope for their sakes, that the repent and die as Catholics.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline Ambrose

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3447
    • Reputation: +2429/-13
    • Gender: Male
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #182 on: July 05, 2013, 06:18:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    * Can married men be deacons? Priests? (Don't laugh; I know an independent priest who had himself consecrated bishop, and ordained one married man a deacon. He also wants to ordain at least one married man a priest!)


    A married man could be validly ordained, but it would be illicit.  I am familiar with some cases as well, but, in my opinion, it is an abuse.

    Some sedevacantists may justify married clergy as they may say that the law has become harmful as there are not enough priests.  

    In my opinion, such a rationale is dangerous and I do not believe that this is a lawful use of epikeia, rather it is an abuse.  

    Even in the pre-Vatican II Church, many Catholics were in rural areas of the world, or in anti-Catholic or communist countries, and lived with irregular sacraments, and the Church never allowed local married priests as a remedy.  

    It is true that Eastern rite priests can marry, but even in those cases, the priest must marry prior
    to being ordained, cannot remarry if his wife passes, and cannot become a bishop.

    In addition to the above reasons, there is a grave risk of scandal, and this is increased among children.  This could also scandalize seminarians who may "why must I choose the between the priesthood or the married life, when I can have both?"

    For myself, I would not go to masses of married Roman Rite traditional priests, and I would urge Catholics to do the same.  
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline Mabel

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1893
    • Reputation: +1386/-25
    • Gender: Female
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #183 on: July 05, 2013, 07:12:02 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Archangel
    I am new to this forum, but think it is probably the most important thread on CI.  Thank you especially to TKGS (for your original post in 2010) and to Ambrose for your detailed explanations.  Your writings exhibit a very high level of charity toward all of us trying to remain Catholic in these times.

    I have been Catholic since birth, attended Masses of the SSPX in my youth (confirmed by Archbishop Lefebvre), followed the independent (ordained pre Vat II) priests until they mostly died off, been home alone for a stint for lack of a priest, and presently adhere to the sedevacantist theory.  When I travel, I seek out the CMRI for Mass.  Unfortunately living in northern IL, I am not very near to a Catholic parish that recognizes the sede theory as valid.

    Does anyone have a suggestion for Mass in the Chicago area?  Also, if you don't mind the question Ambrose, are you a priest?  And, TKGS, did you intend your original post to coincide with the feastday of St. Pius X (Sept 3rd) when you made it, or was that just a coincidence?


    I plan to refer everyone I know who still wants to be Catholic to this information.


    I would also urge you to contact CMRI, I believe at one point they almost set up a chapel in the Chicago area, they certainly might be able to connect you with like-minded individuals.

    Offline Ambrose

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3447
    • Reputation: +2429/-13
    • Gender: Male
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #184 on: July 05, 2013, 08:03:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    * What do you think of Fatima? Padre Pio? Baptism of Desire? "Natural Family Planning"? Separation of Church and State? St. Thomas Aquinas? Limbo? America? The Jews?


    Fatima:  I believe that the message of Fatima is God's gift to our time.  The public miracle is a constant reminder to us that God is I control, despite appearances to the contrary.  Our Lady already too us the end of this crisis, "Russia will be converted, and a reign of peace will be given."

    Padre Pio:  I have no doubt that he was a saintly man.  He never said the Novus Ordo.  He has all of the appearances of being a saint.

    Baptism of Desire:  It is the teaching of the Church, not much more can be said.  St. Alphonsus, using the Council of Trent as his source states: " Now it is de fide that men are also saved by Baptism of desire, by virtue of the Canon Apostolicam, "de presbytero non baptizato" and of the Council of Trent, session 6, Chapter 4 where it is said that no one can be saved "without the laver of regeneration or the desire for it". "  http://www.sedevacantist.com/baptism.html

    "Natural Family Planning"?.   I do not like the term, "natural family palming."  The term gives the false impression that Catholics are permitted to plan their families having children or avoiding having them at will.  

    Pope Pius XII, taught that Catholics due to specific grave reasons may use the rhythm method.  This teaching, while only given in a private speech, was then published in the Acta, which makes the teaching a universal teaching of the pope on a matter of morals.

    If a Catholic fails to assent to this teaching, it is the objective matter of a serious (mortal) sin.  With that said, let me say it is adherence to the Pope's teaching that is required, not adherence to abuses of the teaching.  

    Quote
    Serious motives, such as those which not rarely arise from medical, eugenic, economic and social so-called "indications," may exempt husband and wife from the obligatory, positive debt for a long period or even for the entire period of matrimonial life. From this it follows that the observance of the natural sterile periods may be lawful, from the moral viewpoint: and it is lawful in the conditions mentioned. If, however, according to a reasonable and equitable judgment, there are no such grave reasons either personal or deriving from exterior circuмstances, the will to avoid the fecundity of their union, while continuing to satisfy to the full their sensuality, can only be the result of a false appreciation of life and of motives foreign to sound ethical principles.
    . Pope Pius XII, Address to Midwives, October 29, 1951. http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12midwives.htm

    Separation of Church and State:
    . This made up idea is a modern novelty.  Christ is King over all nations whether they realize it or not.  

    St. Thomas Aquinas? Pope Pius XII taught:  
    Quote
    if we are to avoid the errors which are the source and fountain-head of all the miseries of our time, the teaching of Aquinas must be adhered to more religiously than ever...Thomas refutes the theories propounded by Modernists in every sphere...
    . http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11STUDI.HTM

    America? . America has until modern times been an imperfect but relatively stable home for Catholics.  Catholics have been able to their Faith in relative peace in America, and countless conversions from Protestantism happened in America prior to Vatican II.  

    Due to Protestant persecution of Catholics beginning in the mid-1800s, American Catholic identity was very strong.  Catholics in America were very involved with their parishes, and many groups were formed among the laity.

    The American system is flawed, as the ideal Catholic state must be one that recognizes the Catholic Church as the one true religion, and upholds the rights of the Church.

    But, the Church has always existed in Catholic lands and places that are hostile.  America, while not a Catholic state, has at least allowed the Church to freely operate, to own Churches, operate schools, to publish, and even to work to bring in converts.  

    Limbo. I adhere to what is explained here:  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09256a.htm

    Jews. Like all outside the Church, they need our prayers for their conversion.  
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline Ambrose

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3447
    • Reputation: +2429/-13
    • Gender: Male
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #185 on: July 05, 2013, 08:09:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • the quote above regarding St. Thomas should have read Pope Pius XI, not Pius XII.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline Ambrose

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3447
    • Reputation: +2429/-13
    • Gender: Male
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #186 on: July 05, 2013, 08:49:25 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • For those who may be reading my posts, sorry for the numerous typos.  I no longer have my computer and I am getting used to an ipad, and it is constantly auto spell checking me, leading to confusion.   I will proof my posts more closely.
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline Archangel

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 8
    • Reputation: +18/-0
    • Gender: Male
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #187 on: July 05, 2013, 09:25:50 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Thank you for the advice.  I know some people in the Detroit area affiliated with the CMRI, so I will contact them.


    Offline Lover of Truth

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8700
    • Reputation: +1159/-864
    • Gender: Male
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #188 on: February 05, 2014, 11:20:08 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • My only thought in regards to accepting the SV reality and how this will effect "parish life" friends, family etc. is that none of that should enter the thought process if such will prevent you from accepting the truth for reasons of convenience.  Seek and find the truth and then live accordingly.  The truth will set you free.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 32872
    • Reputation: +29143/-594
    • Gender: Male
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #189 on: May 11, 2015, 12:56:08 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • BUMPing the thread.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    My accounts (Paypal, Venmo) have been (((shut down))) PM me for how to donate and keep the forum going.

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 46813
    • Reputation: +27669/-5138
    • Gender: Male
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #190 on: May 11, 2015, 12:59:19 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matthew
    BUMPing the thread.


    What inspired you to do this now?


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 32872
    • Reputation: +29143/-594
    • Gender: Male
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #191 on: May 11, 2015, 01:02:22 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It came up in another thread.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    My accounts (Paypal, Venmo) have been (((shut down))) PM me for how to donate and keep the forum going.

    Offline TKGS

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5845
    • Reputation: +4693/-490
    • Gender: Male
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #192 on: May 11, 2015, 03:02:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Matthew
    You have to choose (quickly or with much thought, it doesn't matter) the answer to about 3 dozen questions.


    While you, Matthew, complain that the sedevacantist has to answer about 3 dozen questions, you have to answer multiple questions just about every day you read what your (Conciliar) bishop and pope have said and done.  

    If Bergoglio's climate change docuмent declares climate change "deniers" excommunicated as is rumored to be the case, will you refuse communion with any person who denies that man is causing global warming?

    When the Conciliar church formally determines that divorce and remarriage and "same-sex unions" aren't so bad after all that they can't be smiled upon and their practitioners given Communion, will you accept that such teaching?

    Yes, the sedevacantist needs to answer in his mind a few questions though not most of the questions you pose at the beginning of this topic.  The anti-sedevacantist has to deny what he sees and live a lie.

    Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2049
    • Reputation: +1285/-0
    • Gender: Female
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #193 on: May 11, 2015, 03:13:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • TKGS wrote:
    Quote
    If Bergoglio's climate change docuмent declares climate change "deniers" excommunicated as is rumored to be the case,


    Wait, what?  I'd like to read more about this. Can you point to a source of these rumors?  Thanks.

    Offline Matto

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6882
    • Reputation: +3852/-406
    • Gender: Male
    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
    So You Decided To Become A Sedevacantist
    « Reply #194 on: May 11, 2015, 03:19:32 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: TKGS

    If Bergoglio's climate change docuмent declares climate change "deniers" excommunicated as is rumored to be the case, will you refuse communion with any person who denies that man is causing global warming?

    Are there any rules for excommunication or can the Pope excommunicate anyone for any reason? It seems strange to have people excommunicated for actions that have nothing to do with the faith.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.