Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Spera in Deo on March 18, 2017, 08:38:14 AM
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Yesterday, St. Patrick's Day, I'm in a meeting at work, when someone mentions St. Patrick. A n/o I work with, (who knows EVERYTHING Catholic - just ask her :rolleyes:) says to the group, "You know St. Patrick was an Italian, right?" Because her remark was a religious comment, it was immediately ignored and spoken over by the supervisor conducting the meeting.
Later, in the lunch room, she informed everyone that the Bishop of the Diocese gave a special dispensation to the churches in our diocese to eat "whatever they want, meat, of course, since it St. Paddy's day and all". She then called me out and said, "except YOU aren't a part of our Diocese are you, so I guess that's why you are eating that Micky D's fish sandwich" I ignored her and continued eating.
I want to set this P.I.A. straight on EVERYTHING, but I can't because I know myself, and I will just go off like a double barreled shotgun and, maybe, eat HER for lunch!!
The point of this post is to show just how poorly catechized, read and disinterested in their so-called faith, these people are and how they, apparently, have no interest whatsoever in finding out the truth about anything.
Sheeple!
Thanks for listening. I feel better just expressing.
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Well, Saint Patrick was Roman, and dispensations do only apply to those who are residents of the diocese or who are properly traveling to the diocese (I think there's a technical term for it in canon law that I don't remember, but simply visiting a neighboring diocese doesn't make one able to avail themselves of local dispensations).
So she wasn't poorly catechized, though she does seem like a busy-body, although judging by your reaction it sounds like you could give her a run for her money, couldn't you? :)
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Yesterday, St. Patrick's Day, I'm in a meeting at work, when someone mentions St. Patrick. A n/o I work with, (who knows EVERYTHING Catholic - just ask her :rolleyes:) says to the group, "You know St. Patrick was an Italian, right?" Because her remark was a religious comment, it was immediately ignored and spoken over by the supervisor conducting the meeting.
Later, in the lunch room, she informed everyone that the Bishop of the Diocese gave a special dispensation to the churches in our diocese to eat "whatever they want, meat, of course, since it St. Paddy's day and all". She then called me out and said, "except YOU aren't a part of our Diocese are you, so I guess that's why you are eating that Micky D's fish sandwich" I ignored her and continued eating.
I want to set this P.I.A. straight on EVERYTHING, but I can't because I know myself, and I will just go off like a double barreled shotgun and, maybe, eat HER for lunch!!
The point of this post is to show just how poorly catechized, read and disinterested in their so-called faith, these people are and how they, apparently, have no interest whatsoever in finding out the truth about anything.
Sheeple!
Thanks for listening. I feel better just expressing.
Circuмstances like this should make you plan for a future similar situation so that you can say something.
St. Patrick was Roman, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was of Italian ancestry. You should look it up.
I believe the dispensation is a standing, customary one, not something renewed each year. Find out for sure when it was first introduced (which I am sure was before Vatican II) and answer next time that it is a standing custom by law for the longest time, and applies to any Catholic living in the territory. You are a Catholic living in that territory so it applies to me. If she turns and becomes aggressive against your being a traditionalist, just say, "Is this really the place to discuss this right now?"
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Yesterday, St. Patrick's Day, I'm in a meeting at work, when someone mentions St. Patrick. A n/o I work with, (who knows EVERYTHING Catholic - just ask her :rolleyes:) says to the group, "You know St. Patrick was an Italian, right?" Because her remark was a religious comment, it was immediately ignored and spoken over by the supervisor conducting the meeting.
Later, in the lunch room, she informed everyone that the Bishop of the Diocese gave a special dispensation to the churches in our diocese to eat "whatever they want, meat, of course, since it St. Paddy's day and all". She then called me out and said, "except YOU aren't a part of our Diocese are you, so I guess that's why you are eating that Micky D's fish sandwich" I ignored her and continued eating.
I want to set this P.I.A. straight on EVERYTHING, but I can't because I know myself, and I will just go off like a double barreled shotgun and, maybe, eat HER for lunch!!
The point of this post is to show just how poorly catechized, read and disinterested in their so-called faith, these people are and how they, apparently, have no interest whatsoever in finding out the truth about anything.
Sheeple!
Thanks for listening. I feel better just expressing.
I believe that there is some sort of dispensation that was given to all the Catholics in America (prior to Vatican II) for eating meat on Saint Patrick's Feast Day if it falls on a Friday. Yet, I don't remember all of the details, and I forgot to check the bulletin on Sunday about it...
I was sick Friday and couldn't eat much anyhow... ;-)
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Ignoramus said:
"You know St. Patrick was an Italian, right?"
Wrong! There was no Italy and no Italians when Patrick was born. St. Patrick was born in Scotland of a Roman citizen. And so he was a Roman, which is altogether a different thing from Italian.
There cannot be an up-to-date dispensation about eating meat on a Friday because it is already optional, right?
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I think this "kerfluffer" boils down to this in today's 21st century traditional Catholicism:
An indulgence WAS granted, in specific dioceses, by specific bishops, BEFORE Vatican II.
These specific bishops are (supposedly) dead by now, so do their specific indulgences apply to today's 21st century traditional Catholics? (I, personally, think NOT).
Do the 21st century, Novus Ordo "bishops", have the power to grant ANY type of Catholic indulgence, when it comes to eliminating the Catholic Lenten fast/abstinence? ( I, personally, think NOT). Adhering to the traditional Lenten fast/abstinence, BEFORE any Catholic bishop or NOVUS ORDO "bishop" gives a dispensation, is the most salutory way of keeping the Lenten fast/abstinence rule. A dispensation doesn't mean it's obligatory to ANYONE to contravene the Church's law regarding fast and abstinence during Lent.
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Ignoramus said: "You know St. Patrick was an Italian, right?"
Wrong! There was no Italy and no Italians when Patrick was born. St. Patrick was born in Scotland of a Roman citizen. And so he was a Roman, which is altogether a different thing from Italian.
There cannot be an up-to-date dispensation about eating meat on a Friday because it is already optional, right?
It is not true that 'there was no Italy and no Italians' when St Patrick was born to TWO Roman citizens.
Being a Roman is definitely NOT 'altogether different' than being an Italian although they may not be exactly the same. Italy( which is probably a corruption of Atlas) existed even before a few surviving Trojans arrived there as did the Latin language.
:reporter:
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Ignoramus said: "You know St. Patrick was an Italian, right?"
Wrong! There was no Italy and no Italians when Patrick was born. St. Patrick was born in Scotland of a Roman citizen. And so he was a Roman, which is altogether a different thing from Italian.
There cannot be an up-to-date dispensation about eating meat on a Friday because it is already optional, right?
It is not true that 'there was no Italy and no Italians' when St Patrick was born to TWO Roman citizens.
Being a Roman is definitely NOT 'altogether different' than being an Italian. Italy( which is probably a corruption of Atlas) existed even before a few surviving Trojans arrived there as did the Latin language.
:reporter:
There's no such thing as an Italian! :fryingpan:
Right, roscoe?
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:confused1:
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Any piece of paper claiming that Fr Feeney was called to Rome or ex-communicated for not complying is a Fraud....
Conclusion--- There is No Such Thing as Feeneyism... :fryingpan:
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roscoe doesn't exist. :roll-laugh2:
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No one is forcing you to read my posts.... :roll-laugh1:
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No one is forcing you to read my posts.... :roll-laugh1:
Nobody is. :roll-laugh1:
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Roscoe said:
St Patrick was born to TWO Roman citizens.
Well we know that St Patrick's Dad was a Roman citizen; I'd be genuinely interested in knowing if his Mum was also. Have you got some more information or source on that?
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I can't recall the source but will try and think of it. :ready-to-eat:
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According to St Patrick this is where he was from;
I am Patrick, a sinner, most unlearned, the least of all the faithful, and utterly despised by many. My father was Calpornius, a deacon, son of Potitus, a priest, of the village Bannavem Taburniæ; he had a country seat nearby, and there I was taken captive.
http://www.catholicplanet.com/ebooks/Confession-of-St-Patrick.pdf
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posted by BumphreyHobart
"You should look it up "
I DID look it up! And long before Ms. K.I.A trumpeted her skewed "history" throughout the store.
See next quote
posted by poche
"According to St Patrick this is where he was from;
I am Patrick, a sinner, most unlearned, the least of all the faithful, and utterly despised by many. My father was Calpornius, a deacon, son of Potitus, a priest, of the village Bannavem Taburniæ; he had a country seat nearby, and there I was taken captive."
Some people are so fast to criticize. Sheeze! I did not say I didn't already know the history. And the history does not make St. Patrick an Italian. Rome occupied Britain in the 5th century and from BRITAIN was he kidnapped.
BTW, thanks to poche.
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My understanding is that both of St Patrick's parents were born in ITALY.... :ready-to-eat:
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My 'saint of the day' book said that St Patrick was born in France. His uncle on his mother's side was St Martin of Tours. Nice catholic lineage there.
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Doesn't sound accurate to moi.. :sleep:
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http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/st-patrick-may-have-been-from-brittany-not-britain-1.1575923 (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/st-patrick-may-have-been-from-brittany-not-britain-1.1575923)
This article suggests that historians are open to the fact that he was born in Britanny - which is modern day France. Most historians say he was born in Britain - which is modern day Scotland/Wales. There's not many who think Italy.
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My understanding is that St Patrick was born in Scotland of TWO Roman parents who were born in ITALY...
I would imagine that this info can be found in Fr Parsons Studies In Church History vol 1
I am not in possession of this vol at present. :ready-to-eat:
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"I am Patrick, a sinner, most unlearned, the least of all the faithful, and utterly despised by many."
He may have been all that back then, but presently, I hold this title. :)
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From one of my saint's books......
Saint Patrick, the glorious apostle of Ireland, was born in France, in the year 387. His father was an official of the roman government. His mother's brother was Saint Martin, Bishop of Tours. When Saint Patrick was almost sixteen years old, he was captured by pirates and brought to Ireland, where he met the people that would one day be his spiritual children. Saint Patrick was miraculously freed, and returned to France. He was sent back to Ireland as a bishop by Saint Celestine, the Pope.
Saint Patrick's most noted spiritual daughter in Ireland was Saint Bridget, called the “Mary of the Gael”.
Saint Patrick drove all the snakes - symbols of the devil - out of Ireland. He raised 33 persons from the dead. By making the sign of the cross, he caused the earth to swallow up a heathen who mocked the virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Saint Patrick's charioteer, Saint Odran, was martyred in place of him by some Celtic heathens.
Saint Patrick was one hundred and six years old when he died.
Saint Patrick, Saint Bridget and Saint Columbkille are all buried together and are the patron saints of Ireland.
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Ignoramus said:
Wrong! There was no Italy and no Italians when Patrick was born. St. Patrick was born in Scotland of a Roman citizen. And so he was a Roman, which is altogether a different thing from Italian.
There cannot be an up-to-date dispensation about eating meat on a Friday because it is already optional, right?
If what we know of St. Patrick's birth is correct, then he was born in Roman Britain, that part of the Roman Empire that extended to what is now the United Kingdom. So St. Patrick was not an "Italian." He was instead a Roman citizen. Civis Romanus sum. This is an important distinction. The Roman Empire in the 5th century was quite large.
I also believe St. Patrick's grandfather was from an area in cuмbria or perhaps near Scotland or Wales. So, while, St. Patrick was indeed a Roman citizen, he was not a citizen of Rome, Italy.
Italy as a country did not stretch from Antioch through Africa, out through Spain, and up into Britain. However, the Roman Empire did. That is the distinction.
St. Patrick was not Italian. He was a Roman, a citizen of the Empire in the 5th Century, born and living in Roman Britain until his abduction by the Irish.
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My understanding is that San Patrico's parents were born in Italy and migrated to Scotland as Roman citizens. This makes the saint both Roman and Italian. :ready-to-eat:
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My understanding is that San Patricio's parents were born in Italy and migrated to Scotland as Roman citizens. This makes the saint both Roman and Italian. :ready-to-eat:
Probably his Mum was born in Pannonia, where her brother St Martin was born. Pannonia was a Roman province located over the territory of the present-day western Hungary, eastern Austria, northern Croatia, north-western Serbia, northern Slovenia, western Slovakia and northern Bosnia and Herzegovina.
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:laugh1:
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posted by BumphreyHobart
"You should look it up "
I DID look it up! And long before Ms. K.I.A trumpeted her skewed "history" throughout the store.
See next quote
posted by poche
"According to St Patrick this is where he was from;
I am Patrick, a sinner, most unlearned, the least of all the faithful, and utterly despised by many. My father was Calpornius, a deacon, son of Potitus, a priest, of the village Bannavem Taburniæ; he had a country seat nearby, and there I was taken captive."
Some people are so fast to criticize. Sheeze! I did not say I didn't already know the history. And the history does not make St. Patrick an Italian. Rome occupied Britain in the 5th century and from BRITAIN was he kidnapped.
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posted by BumphreyHobart
"You should look it up "
I DID look it up! And long before Ms. K.I.A trumpeted her skewed "history" throughout the store.
See next quote
posted by poche
"According to St Patrick this is where he was from;
I am Patrick, a sinner, most unlearned, the least of all the faithful, and utterly despised by many. My father was Calpornius, a deacon, son of Potitus, a priest, of the village Bannavem Taburniæ; he had a country seat nearby, and there I was taken captive."
Some people are so fast to criticize. Sheeze! I did not say I didn't already know the history. And the history does not make St. Patrick an Italian. Rome occupied Britain in the 5th century and from BRITAIN was he kidnapped.
BTW, thanks to poche.
Not very accurate research as J Caesar was in Britain going after Druids even in pre- christian times. In the first century AD another Roman incursion had more success and by the second century, there was to be found a faction of Roman Catholics in Britain. London is a Roman city.
St Patrick doesn't convert Ireland for another 3-4 hundred yrs.
Acc to Fr Parsons V1( Imprimateur Pope Leo XIII)
" Probably born, certainly brought up, near Boulogne-sur-Mer ( Bonavea Tubernaie say the Confessions), in France....."
He is silent re: the origin or ethnicity of his parents. :cheers:
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Not very accurate research as J Caesar was in Britain going after Druids even in pre- christian times. In the first century AD another Roman incursion had more success and by the second century, there was to be found a faction of Roman Catholics in Britain. London is a Roman city.
St Patrick doesn't convert Ireland for another 3-4 hundred yrs.
Acc to Fr Parsons V1( Imprimateur Pope Leo XIII)
" Probably born, certainly brought up, near Boulogne-sur-Mer ( Bonavea Tubernaie say the Confessions), in France....."
He is silent re: the origin or ethnicity of his parents. :cheers:
Not silent! In his Confessio, Patrick writes:
I had as my father the deacon Calpornius, son of the late Potitus, a priest, who belonged to the small town of Bannavem Taberniae; he had a small estate nearby, and it was there I was taken captive.
St. Patrick was born around 387-390 AD with the Celtic name Maewyn Succat, in a village called Bannavem Taburniæ in Western Britain, either Wales or Scotland, under Roman rule. His parents were Calpurnius (a deacon, son of Potitus, a priest), and Conchessa. He adopted the title Patricius, or Patrick, upon becoming a priest. He died at Saul, Downpatrick Ireland, on the 17th of March 460 or some say 492. All dates are the subject of some debate.
http://www.mauiceltic.com/ireland.htm
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Not very accurate research as J Caesar was in Britain going after Druids even in pre- christian times. In the first century AD another Roman incursion had more success and by the second century, there was to be found a faction of Roman Catholics in Britain. London is a Roman city.
St Patrick doesn't convert Ireland for another 3-4 hundred yrs.
Acc to Fr Parsons V1( Imprimateur Pope Leo XIII)
" Probably born, certainly brought up, near Boulogne-sur-Mer ( Bonavea Tubernaie say the Confessions), in France....."
He is silent re: the origin or ethnicity of his parents. :cheers:
I think it should be considered accurate as it is in his own words. Are there any contemporaries to contradict him?
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Acc to Fr Laux's history,the saint was probably born in Caerwenr(t) near Bristol.
At any rate, his father & grandfather have Roman names. Probably Italian immigrants to Britain in the 1st or 2nd century. :cheers: