Author Topic: Sister Lucy attended the Novus Ordo Mass for decades (Read 27179 times)

awkwardcustomer · « **Reply #25 on:** October 11, 2014, 05:03:54 PM »

OHCA said,

Quote

....Both sides, starting in the very first post, are putting far too much weight on what Sister Lucy did and did not do. Was Sister Lucy a pope or otherwise infallible? NO. Does anything about Fatima guarantee that Sister Lucy would never sin? NO. Did many good Catholics get duped (mainly by virtue of being "obedient") into following the conciliarists and its "popes?" YES. Is it possible that Sister Lucy was one of those good Catholics who obediently followed the path of conciliardom? YES. If so, does that make conciliardom right or acceptable? HELL NO!!!!

awkwardcustomer's initial post invited you all into proceeding as though Sister Lucy was some sort of sinless, divine, infallible persona, and y'all (laughably) fell for it. I argue with heretics all the time accusing Catholics of thinking that the saints are divine. You sound as though if it were unequivocally proven to you that Sister Lucy attended NO "masses" and "sacraments," that you would suddenly decide that conciliardom is perfectly fine. And that's what awkwardcustomer baited you for.

I don't know for sure (nor do any of you), but I expect she did and that she was who ggreg saw all giddy with JPII. But that's absolutely MEANINGLESS as an indication of whether the NO is good or not. Just like this whole thread--MEANINGLESS--not worth a $#!+ for anything.

And then somebody like Hirsch comes strolling by who has been putting sentences together and making a little sense of late, and he has a relapse and takes this Sister Lucy's actions as the golden nugget of an indicator that the NO and its sacraments are acceptable. UGH!!

Excuse me, but I didn't bait anyone for anything. If you object to the topic of this thread and choose to declare it "MEANINGLESS" in a loud voice, and "not worth a "$#!+", then that's up to you. But I think you have misunderstood the point of this topic.

My questions were not intended to demonstrate that the Novus Ordo Mass is acceptable because Sister Lucy attended it. Most certainly not. They were intended to ask whether or not someone is worthy of belief given that they attended the Novus Ordo Mass every day for over thirty years in a Novus Ordo convent, while never once objecting the Vatican II and its reforms.

There is no suggestion here that Sister Lucy should have been entirely perfect and sinless, or needed to be in order to be believed. But the three secrets of Fatima, and more besides, are entirely dependent on the testimony of Sister Lucy and no-one else. Catholics, especially Traditionalists, put a lot of weight on her testimony and are entitled to consider her conduct in the post Vatican II years regarding the reforms introduced by the Council.

LaramieHirsch · « **Reply #26 on:** October 11, 2014, 05:34:03 PM »

Quote from: OHCA

And then somebody like Hirsch comes strolling by who has been putting sentences together and making a little sense of late, and he has a relapse and takes this Sister Lucy's actions as the golden nugget of an indicator that the NO and its sacraments are acceptable. UGH!!

Bah! Everyone's throwing every wild speculation on the table except THAT ONE. As if every law of physics would prevent the Novus Ordo from being a valid Mass. Every speculation, no matter how kooky, is welcomed onto the table of this discussion except THAT ONE.

And just to clarify, I did not say that the Novus Ordo Mass is acceptable. I said it is legitimate.

I do not think the Novus Ordo Mass is acceptable. At least, not to me personally, which is why I attend Tridentine Latin Mass through my diocese. The Novus Ordo Mass should be done away with forever, and it is a clear mark of Modernism's assaults on the Church. It is likely that it is odious to God, and when I think of it, I liken it to being fed from a garbage can. You can survive, but it is a pathetic way to celebrate a Consecrated Host.

It has always been obvious that I do not like the Novus Ordo Mass, and that it should be gotten rid of, among other problems in the Church.

My guess is that Lucy was a prisoner of sorts, and probably a simple woman who didn't know any better.

ggreg · « **Reply #27 on:** October 11, 2014, 06:25:30 PM »

She also saw Hell and knew the Third Secret of Fatima. One might therefore realistically think, regardless of how simple she was, that if Fatima in anyway whatsoever suggested that the Church would lose its way, then she would have known not to go along with it

And if Fatima's third didn't warn against that, or at least imply it, then what relevance does it have to us in 2014?

Because for the last 25 years THAT is the problem we are facing? Not primarily immodest fashions or the errors of Russia, but the total abandonment of the Church's mission to teach morality and save souls.

LaramieHirsch · « **Reply #28 on:** October 11, 2014, 08:27:59 PM »

Quote from: ggreg

She also saw Hell and knew the Third Secret of Fatima. One might therefore realistically think, regardless of how simple she was, that if Fatima in anyway whatsoever suggested that the Church would lose its way, then she would have known not to go along with it

And if Fatima's third didn't warn against that, or at least imply it, then what relevance does it have to us in 2014?

Because for the last 25 years THAT is the problem we are facing? Not primarily immodest fashions or the errors of Russia, but the total abandonment of the Church's mission to teach morality and save souls.

True. Common sense would have us think she surely would've seen this.

However, maybe she was dense. Many people are. The very existence of people who continue to attend Novus Ordo--in spite of being told of what it is, its nature, and its effects on the Church--the very existence of these people is a testament to the fact that people can be dense.

Or...

Another possibility is that she recognized that the Novus Ordo, while odious, is legitimate, yet she was only allowed to attend N.O. Mass.

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #29 on:** October 11, 2014, 08:54:09 PM »

Quote from: ggreg

She also saw Hell and knew the Third Secret of Fatima. One might therefore realistically think, regardless of how simple she was, that if Fatima in anyway whatsoever suggested that the Church would lose its way, then she would have known not to go along with it

And if Fatima's third didn't warn against that, or at least imply it, then what relevance does it have to us in 2014?

Because for the last 25 years THAT is the problem we are facing? Not primarily immodest fashions or the errors of Russia, but the total abandonment of the Church's mission to teach morality and save souls.

This.