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Author Topic: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?  (Read 1004 times)

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Offline AMDG forever

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Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2025, 02:14:45 AM »
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  • “Okay boys… let’s lynch him now for his non-trad link!”



    Bro, I don’t mind the non Catholic link as long as it doesn’t attack the Church or her popes.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
    « Reply #16 on: April 27, 2025, 10:08:23 AM »
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  • Bro, I don’t mind the non Catholic link as long as it doesn’t attack the Church or her popes.

    Touché AMDG!

    The “buffoon” just struck me initially as excessive and perhaps a PM may have struck home the point more effectively?

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline AMDG forever

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    Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
    « Reply #17 on: April 27, 2025, 10:16:10 AM »
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  • Touché AMDG!

    The “buffoon” just struck me initially as excessive and perhaps a PM may have struck home the point more effectively?


    Much appreciated incred! I don’t have enough feedback to give you a thumbs up, but I would if I could. 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
    « Reply #18 on: April 27, 2025, 11:55:59 AM »
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  • Great reference you buffoon! Wonderful use of an ultra liberal, non Catholic site to disparage the Catholic Church and Her popes! :facepalm:

    While you might dispute one or two details, it's a simple fact that not a few popes were degenerates, and likely a handful of sodomites.  But you missed the entire point of the comparison, that if Bergoglio had been ORTHODOX, i..e not a heretic, then his personal sins pale by comparison, and are between him and God, i.e. at least these others didn't wreck the faith and in some cases admirably defended it despite their personal deparavity.

    So you're going to pretend now that every Catholic pope who'se ever lived was a saint?  I wouldn't be surprised ift he majority of them were in hell for one reason or another.

    In fact, there's a story where a man was trying to convert someone to Catholicism (during one of thoese times when the Vatican was anything but edifying), and the potential convert proposed a trip to Rome.  So the Catholic became alarmed and tried to dissuade him, knowing what was going on there.  But the man insisted and the Catholic lost all hope for his conversion.  Much to his astonishment, however, the man returned declaring his intention to convert.  So the Catholic asked him how he was still interested in converting, and the man responded, "Any institution that could withstand such depravity and even keep sound doctrine must certainly have been established by God.  There's no other natural explanation for it."

    Offline VerdenFell

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    Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
    « Reply #19 on: April 27, 2025, 12:00:55 PM »
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  • While you might dispute one or two details, it's a simple fact that not a few popes were degenerates, and likely a handful of sodomites.  But you missed the entire point of the comparison, that if Bergoglio had been ORTHODOX, i..e not a heretic, then his personal sins pale by comparison, and are between him and God, i.e. at least these others didn't wreck the faith and in some cases admirably defended it despite their personal deparavity.

    So you're going to pretend now that every Catholic pope who'se ever lived was a saint?  I wouldn't be surprised ift he majority of them were in hell for one reason or another.

    In fact, there's a story where a man was trying to convert someone to Catholicism (during one of thoese times when the Vatican was anything but edifying), and the potential convert proposed a trip to Rome.  So the Catholic became alarmed and tried to dissuade him, knowing what was going on there.  But the man insisted and the Catholic lost all hope for his conversion.  Much to his astonishment, however, the man returned declaring his intention to convert.  So the Catholic asked him how he was still interested in converting, and the man responded, "Any institution that could withstand such depravity and even keep sound doctrine must certainly have been established by God.  There's no other natural explanation for it."
    Dante placed no less than four pope in hell, one of which was still alive at the time he was writing the Inferno.
    They were so wicked and corrupt that his contemporaries probably didn't even raise an eyebrow. Nor was Dante ever
    condemned by the Church, in fact just the opposite, one pope wrote an encyclical just to honor him.


    Offline AMDG forever

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    Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
    « Reply #20 on: April 27, 2025, 12:53:46 PM »
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  • While you might dispute one or two details, it's a simple fact that not a few popes were degenerates, and likely a handful of sodomites.  But you missed the entire point of the comparison, that if Bergoglio had been ORTHODOX, i..e not a heretic, then his personal sins pale by comparison, and are between him and God, i.e. at least these others didn't wreck the faith and in some cases admirably defended it despite their personal deparavity.

    So you're going to pretend now that every Catholic pope who'se ever lived was a saint?  I wouldn't be surprised ift he majority of them were in hell for one reason or another.

    In fact, there's a story where a man was trying to convert someone to Catholicism (during one of thoese times when the Vatican was anything but edifying), and the potential convert proposed a trip to Rome.  So the Catholic became alarmed and tried to dissuade him, knowing what was going on there.  But the man insisted and the Catholic lost all hope for his conversion.  Much to his astonishment, however, the man returned declaring his intention to convert.  So the Catholic asked him how he was still interested in converting, and the man responded, "Any institution that could withstand such depravity and even keep sound doctrine must certainly have been established by God.  There's no other natural explanation for it."

    I have close to a totally opposite view. Most of the history about our glorious popes has been falsified by Protestants with a axe to grind. The good Alexander VI is a perfect example. The lies about him are extant and disgraceful.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
    « Reply #21 on: April 27, 2025, 01:21:36 PM »
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  • Dante placed no less than four pope in hell, one of which was still alive at the time he was writing the Inferno.
    They were so wicked and corrupt that his contemporaries probably didn't even raise an eyebrow. Nor was Dante ever
    condemned by the Church, in fact just the opposite, one pope wrote an encyclical just to honor him.

    Indeed, there's no divine guarantee, no promise from Our Lord, that popes will be impeccable ... just that their "faith shall not fail".  That's the very point I was making where, while people might forcus on Bergoglio's personal degeneracy (allegations of illegitimate child, sodomy, etc.) ... those are a distraction from his heresy and apostasy, and if he were merely a degenerate, I'd be thinking that it's between him and God and not my problem.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
    « Reply #22 on: April 27, 2025, 01:22:31 PM »
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  • I have close to a totally opposite view. Most of the history about our glorious popes has been falsified by Protestants with a axe to grind. The good Alexander VI is a perfect example. The lies about him are extant and disgraceful.

    Again, you're compltely missing the point ... as one case suffices to for it (see my post above).  At the same time, the more you cling with white knuckles to some invented principles that Pope are all walking saints as if by some guarantee, the more you set that false principle up for falsification in case where their degeneracy has been proven, an easy strawman that you're helping erect so that the non-Catholics can slap it down.  You're actually assistintin in their strawman attack against the Church.  It's the same when various Traditional Catholics exaggerate the scope of papal infallibility, since it takes merely a single course reversal on one point for the Prots to claim that (their strawman of) papal infallibility has been flasified.


    Offline AMDG forever

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    Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
    « Reply #23 on: April 27, 2025, 01:46:15 PM »
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  • Again, you're compltely missing the point ... as one case suffices to for it (see my post above).  At the same time, the more you cling with white knuckles to some invented principles that Pope are all walking saints as if by some guarantee, the more you set that false principle up for falsification in case where their degeneracy has been proven, an easy strawman that you're helping erect so that the non-Catholics can slap it down.  You're actually assistintin in their strawman attack against the Church.  It's the same when various Traditional Catholics exaggerate the scope of papal infallibility, since it takes merely a single course reversal on one point for the Prots to claim that (their strawman of) papal infallibility has been flasified.

    In actuality you are the one who is creating a strawman. I never said that all popes were necessarily saints, just that many were actually good men and have been defamed mostly by prots and several disingenuous catholics. As I said, Alexander VI is a prime example. His name today is synonymous with evil. Errors and lies were spread about him by Protestants and in turn, ill informed Catholics, such as yourself, have spread misinformation about him for centuries. In truth he was actually a good pope who DID NOT have illegitimate children.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
    « Reply #24 on: April 27, 2025, 01:48:39 PM »
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  • In actuality you are the one who is creating a strawman.

    Again, you're missing the point.  I even said in my initial post on the subject that one could contest some of the details ... and you've gone mentally derailed here.  If there's one case, that suffices to make my point, to which you appear to be oblivious.

    Offline dymphnaw

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    Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
    « Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 03:07:37 PM »
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  • In actuality you are the one who is creating a strawman. I never said that all popes were necessarily saints, just that many were actually good men and have been defamed mostly by prots and several disingenuous catholics. As I said, Alexander VI is a prime example. His name today is synonymous with evil. Errors and lies were spread about him by Protestants and in turn, ill informed Catholics, such as yourself, have spread misinformation about him for centuries. In truth he was actually a good pope who DID NOT have illegitimate children.
    So where did all those kids come from?


    Offline AMDG forever

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    Re: Why didn't Bergoglio visit Argentina as pope?
    « Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 05:22:09 PM »
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  • So where did all those kids come from?
    They were actually his nieces and nephews.

    I suggest you start by reading the preface of the following set of books in five volumes. It was written by the Catholic Monsignor Peter De Roo called Material for a History of Pope Alexander VI:

    https://archive.org/details/historyofpopeale0001unse/page/n13/mode/2up