Author Topic: SISCOES FOLLY? (Read 6372 times)

Magna opera Domini · « **Reply #40 on:** June 07, 2014, 01:07:28 AM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Quote from: Magna opera Domini
Quote
Recommended reading on the matter of who is and isn't a member: http://www.scribd.com/doc/224429380/Van-Noort-Vol-2-Members-of-the-Church

Mith, I really appreciate the opportunity to read this. Can you give the title of the work? Is is purchasable today or out of print?

Magna,

Pleased that you found it helpful! I scanned it because I think it is the best summary of the doctrine I've come across. The book is "Dogmatic Theology Volume 2: Christ's Church" by Mgr. G. Van Noort. It is the second in a three volume series. The book is out of print, though second-hand copies can be found easily enough on Amazon, Abe Books or Ebay. Typically they seem to go for around twenty USD per volume, and the third volume is often closer to forty USD. However, I found some book sellers on Amazon who apparently didn't know what they had and was able to get each copy for around 10 USD (shipping included) so I ended up with a set for at least half of what one would normally pay. Point being, if you can afford it at the steeper prices go for it; if you can't, patience will reward you and you might find someone selling them pretty cheap.

Some other sections of the book are online, though not as scans. If you go back to the scribd link, I've also scanned a few pages from the same author on the Ordinary Universal Magisterium that you can find by clicking on my screen name on the scribd site (I believe I titled it "Van Noort on the OUM"). Otherwise, strobertbellarmine.net has uploaded the chapters on infallibility and a few marks of the Church in text format. Here is a link: http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/doctrine.html (in this link there is also the entire of Wilhelm and Scannel's two volume work, transcribed in full, and other useful resources).

ETA: http://www.scribd.com/doc/226459823/Van-Noort-on-the-OUM <-- Link to the aforementioned section on the OUM. It's only three pages, since when I scanned it the point of contention was the nature of the teaching authority of the bishops together with the pope-- hence why I stopped scanning at "ecuмenical councils."

Prices have gone up! Is the 1961 edition as good as earlier editions?

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #41 on:** June 07, 2014, 07:51:33 AM »

Quote from: Magna opera Domini

Quote from: Mithrandylan
Quote from: Magna opera Domini
Quote
Recommended reading on the matter of who is and isn't a member: http://www.scribd.com/doc/224429380/Van-Noort-Vol-2-Members-of-the-Church

Mith, I really appreciate the opportunity to read this. Can you give the title of the work? Is is purchasable today or out of print?

Magna,

Pleased that you found it helpful! I scanned it because I think it is the best summary of the doctrine I've come across. The book is "Dogmatic Theology Volume 2: Christ's Church" by Mgr. G. Van Noort. It is the second in a three volume series. The book is out of print, though second-hand copies can be found easily enough on Amazon, Abe Books or Ebay. Typically they seem to go for around twenty USD per volume, and the third volume is often closer to forty USD. However, I found some book sellers on Amazon who apparently didn't know what they had and was able to get each copy for around 10 USD (shipping included) so I ended up with a set for at least half of what one would normally pay. Point being, if you can afford it at the steeper prices go for it; if you can't, patience will reward you and you might find someone selling them pretty cheap.

Some other sections of the book are online, though not as scans. If you go back to the scribd link, I've also scanned a few pages from the same author on the Ordinary Universal Magisterium that you can find by clicking on my screen name on the scribd site (I believe I titled it "Van Noort on the OUM"). Otherwise, strobertbellarmine.net has uploaded the chapters on infallibility and a few marks of the Church in text format. Here is a link: http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/doctrine.html (in this link there is also the entire of Wilhelm and Scannel's two volume work, transcribed in full, and other useful resources).

ETA: http://www.scribd.com/doc/226459823/Van-Noort-on-the-OUM <-- Link to the aforementioned section on the OUM. It's only three pages, since when I scanned it the point of contention was the nature of the teaching authority of the bishops together with the pope-- hence why I stopped scanning at "ecuмenical councils."

Prices have gone up! Is the 1961 edition as good as earlier editions?

Each of my volumes appears to have a different publication date-- vol. III being published in 1961. I don't see it as an issue.

Magna opera Domini · « **Reply #42 on:** June 08, 2014, 12:06:18 AM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Point made short: Indeed, "fruits" refers to doctrine more than anything else. :)

As far as your question re: Machabees, the office of the High Priesthood is not analogous with the papacy. They are extraordinarily different. But, if you think better by analogies, could a woman Zoroastrian be the High Priest? Why not?

Hello Mith. Finally I've been able to read carefully the source material you provided. Obviously you are correct. Of course it's also rather deflating to see how far afield an ordinary Catholic can go in understanding simple scriptural passages without a solid Catholic guide.

To further humble myself, I have to confess that your analogy re the relationship of high priest to pope (or rather the lack of thereof) is not enlightening me.

Magna opera Domini · « **Reply #43 on:** June 08, 2014, 12:08:30 AM »

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Each of my volumes appears to have a different publication date-- vol. III being published in 1961. I don't see it as an issue.

Thank you!

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #44 on:** June 08, 2014, 08:22:51 AM »

Quote from: Magna opera Domini

Quote from: Mithrandylan

Point made short: Indeed, "fruits" refers to doctrine more than anything else. :)

As far as your question re: Machabees, the office of the High Priesthood is not analogous with the papacy. They are extraordinarily different. But, if you think better by analogies, could a woman Zoroastrian be the High Priest? Why not?

Hello Mith. Finally I've been able to read carefully the source material you provided. Obviously you are correct. Of course it's also rather deflating to see how far afield an ordinary Catholic can go in understanding simple scriptural passages without a solid Catholic guide.

To further humble myself, I have to confess that your analogy re the relationship of high priest to pope (or rather the lack of thereof) is not enlightening me.

The analogy between the papacy and the High-priesthood isn't really a good analogy because there are some pretty significant differences between the Old and New testament. But the question I asked you was meant to drive to the heart of the matter, which is that even under the Old Covenant there were pre-requisites to being part of the Covenant, and to belonging to the High Priesthood. A Pagan could not be the High Priest; a non-member of the Catholic Church can't be pope.