Author Topic: Sinagoglio hard to be proven a heretic? (Read 8481 times)

Sneakyticks · « **Reply #105 on:** July 14, 2014, 02:29:57 PM »

So, like I said, proving Bergoglio is a modernist/heretic/apostate really is silly when it all goes back to Vatican 2 and the New Mess.

He is simply following and putting in practice Vatican 2 and the New Mess teach.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #106 on:** July 14, 2014, 03:11:03 PM »

Quote from: Sneakyticks

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Sneakyticks
The new Good Friday prayer does this as well, asking that тαℓмυdic Zionists CONTINUE to be "faithful" to God's covenant with them.

Well, if that's what it says, this would be undeniably heretical, since in no way, shape, or form are they faithful to the Covenant.

It IS what it says, here's the 2011 version, which is the same as the 1970 one:

Let us pray also for the Jєωιѕн people, to whom the Lord our God spoke first, that he may grant them to ADVANCE in love of his name AND IN FAITHFULNESS TO HIS COVENANT. (Prayer in silence. Then the Priest says:) Almighty ever-living God, who bestowed your promises on Abraham and his descendants, hear graciously the prayers of your Church, that the people you first made your own may attain the fullness of redemption. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Ah, so the word isn't "CONTINUE" (as you claimed earlier) but "ADVANCE", which is much more ambiguous. ADVANCE could mean to start moving forward (even from step zero). CONTINUE would have been overtly heretical, whereas ADVANCE (move forward) doesn't necessarily imply that they are continuing a present state.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #107 on:** July 14, 2014, 03:12:44 PM »

Quote from: Sneakyticks

So, like I said, proving Bergoglio is a modernist/heretic/apostate really is silly ...

There's nothing silly about it. You can't just throw the charge of heresy out there without hard evidence.

Sneakyticks · « **Reply #108 on:** July 14, 2014, 04:04:01 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Sneakyticks
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Sneakyticks
The new Good Friday prayer does this as well, asking that тαℓмυdic Zionists CONTINUE to be "faithful" to God's covenant with them.

Well, if that's what it says, this would be undeniably heretical, since in no way, shape, or form are they faithful to the Covenant.

It IS what it says, here's the 2011 version, which is the same as the 1970 one:

Let us pray also for the Jєωιѕн people, to whom the Lord our God spoke first, that he may grant them to ADVANCE in love of his name AND IN FAITHFULNESS TO HIS COVENANT. (Prayer in silence. Then the Priest says:) Almighty ever-living God, who bestowed your promises on Abraham and his descendants, hear graciously the prayers of your Church, that the people you first made your own may attain the fullness of redemption. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Ah, so the word isn't "CONTINUE" (as you claimed earlier) but "ADVANCE", which is much more ambiguous. ADVANCE could mean to start moving forward (even from step zero). CONTINUE would have been overtly heretical, whereas ADVANCE (move forward) doesn't necessarily imply that they are continuing a present state.

The 1970 one, the original one, DOES say CONTINUE.

So what I said still stands.

Sneakyticks · « **Reply #109 on:** July 14, 2014, 04:11:31 PM »

The Novus Ordo sect OFFICIALLY says that it has no mission to convert Jews.

So all you're saying is just nonsense.

The OFFICIAL STANCE of this sect is to NOT convert any тαℓмυdic Jews. That much is plain, patent and obvious from all that they have been doing and saying.

All that is apostasy plain and simple.

Sneakyticks · « **Reply #110 on:** July 14, 2014, 04:16:49 PM »

This is the original 1970 one which was used for decades and may still be in use:

Let us pray for the Jєωιѕн people, the first to hear the word of God, that they may CONTINUE to grow in the love of his name AND IN FAITHFULNESS TO HIS COVENANT. (Prayer in silence. Then the priest says:) Almighty and eternal God, long ago you gave your promise to Abraham and his posterity. Listen to your Church as we pray that the people you first made your own may arrive at the fullness of redemption. We ask this through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Sneakyticks · « **Reply #111 on:** July 14, 2014, 05:04:31 PM »

This is nothing new Ladislaus.

Are you going to tell me you had never read the 1970 new Good Friday prayer?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #112 on:** July 14, 2014, 08:50:06 PM »

Quote from: Sneakyticks

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Sneakyticks
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Sneakyticks
The new Good Friday prayer does this as well, asking that тαℓмυdic Zionists CONTINUE to be "faithful" to God's covenant with them.

Well, if that's what it says, this would be undeniably heretical, since in no way, shape, or form are they faithful to the Covenant.

It IS what it says, here's the 2011 version, which is the same as the 1970 one:

Let us pray also for the Jєωιѕн people, to whom the Lord our God spoke first, that he may grant them to ADVANCE in love of his name AND IN FAITHFULNESS TO HIS COVENANT. (Prayer in silence. Then the Priest says:) Almighty ever-living God, who bestowed your promises on Abraham and his descendants, hear graciously the prayers of your Church, that the people you first made your own may attain the fullness of redemption. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Ah, so the word isn't "CONTINUE" (as you claimed earlier) but "ADVANCE", which is much more ambiguous. ADVANCE could mean to start moving forward (even from step zero). CONTINUE would have been overtly heretical, whereas ADVANCE (move forward) doesn't necessarily imply that they are continuing a present state.

The 1970 one, the original one, DOES say CONTINUE.

So what I said still stands.

Do you have the Latin term? If it is continue, then I agree that it's clearly heretical.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #113 on:** July 14, 2014, 08:51:52 PM »

Quote from: Sneakyticks

This is nothing new Ladislaus.

Are you going to tell me you had never read the 1970 new Good Friday prayer?

Yeah, I read it at one point but it's obviously not something I bothered to commit to memory.

Sneakyticks · « **Reply #114 on:** July 14, 2014, 09:06:24 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Do you have the Latin term? If it is continue, then I agree that it's clearly heretical.

So now unless it's in Latin you will say it's all fine?

Sneakyticks · « **Reply #115 on:** July 15, 2014, 03:52:02 PM »

Quote from: Sneakyticks

Quote from: Ladislaus
Do you have the Latin term? If it is continue, then I agree that it's clearly heretical.

So now unless it's in Latin you will say it's all fine?

?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #116 on:** July 15, 2014, 05:20:03 PM »

Obviously, since you have provided two different translations, I would like to see what the actual Latin says to see which is the correct translation.

Sneakyticks · « **Reply #117 on:** July 15, 2014, 05:44:11 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Obviously, since you have provided two different translations, I would like to see what the actual Latin says to see which is the correct translation.

Well, I don't have a novus ordo missal lying around my house right now, and I bet you could easily find the original Latin translation couldn't you?

I don't even know if the novus ordo missals they use regularly have a Latin translation along with the vernacular one, if they do, I could get my hands on one easily but not right this moment.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #118 on:** July 16, 2014, 01:11:29 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

If you believe that a Jew can be saved as a Jew, a Muslim as a Muslim, and Hindu as an Hindu, a Protestant as a Protestant, etc. (via last minute BoD), then, Ecuмenism and Religious Liberty can actually be quite reconcilable with the Church.

If you believe that there is Sanctifying Grace outside the Church and that non-Catholics can also be saved without an explicit conversion to the True Faith, then the Prayer Meetings of Assisi I, II and III make perfect sense.

After all, everyone at the Prayer Meeting could be said to have good will and a "desire to do the will of a god who rewards and punishes." Everyone there could be indeed an invincible "Catholic," and "anonymous Christian," and thus part of the Church. If they are then justified, temples of the Holy Ghost, members of the Church and open to receive salvation, why not pray with them?

Again, Modernism has its foundation in the denial of the EENS dogma.

.........................
If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5), let him be anathema.

What's taking so long for Assisi IV, is what I'd like to know. Francesco is going to be looking for some NEW WAY of pulling that off. Probably a lot more dancing girls, maybe some acrobatics -- he could hire Cirque du Soleil.

.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #119 on:** July 16, 2014, 01:25:09 AM »

.

Visions of Assisi IV

.