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Author Topic: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?  (Read 689 times)

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Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
« on: August 15, 2021, 08:59:13 AM »
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  • Shouldn’t we be God centered 24/7?  But most don’t want to talk about God unless it is Sunday.  Then there is talk of free will.

    Everything should be God centered.  Yes, they have uncrowned Him.  

    Satan and his works is 24/7.



    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #1 on: August 15, 2021, 09:04:19 AM »
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  • “For you to even say that was not cool...its judgment junk...catholic mind set... which is fine... for you cause you're catholic...but not for me cause I'm not.”  

    I told her that she should be going to her own church at least.  

    “So, again,  No religion, No politics,  the Only way we'll have a relationship in life💐“( from my sister the humanist borderline atheist.  ).

    The worse part is that she has two beautiful girls that my sister has destroyed with help of my parents. My husband and I have none.  











    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #2 on: August 15, 2021, 09:52:04 AM »
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  • “And I'd like to never have this type of conversation again about that stuff...I hate repeating in life...lol.. its exhausting 🤣“ says my sister. 


    Because I keep pushing.  I guess I need to pray more.  It is exhausting when no one in my family want to hear truth.  She took the vax. She made my nieces take the vax long before it was required.  She has my niece so paranoid that a mechanic had to tell my niece not keep Lysol in her car. 

    To be honest having a relationship with my family is hard and not spiritually healthy.  My dad is weak lukewarm.  My family need prayers.  





    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #3 on: August 15, 2021, 03:49:11 PM »
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  • for you and your family, Viva.   :pray: :pray: :pray:

    You have does your best but you are ....



    Take a break. Just pray for them. There are none so deaf as those who WILL not (don't want to) hear. 
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #4 on: August 15, 2021, 03:49:44 PM »
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  • for you and your family, Viva.   :pray: :pray: :pray:

    You have done your best but you are ....



    Take a break. Just pray for them. There are none so deaf as those who WILL not (don't want to) hear.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #5 on: August 15, 2021, 04:00:01 PM »
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  • "Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you."
    Matthew 7:6

    I've heard this expression and thought I understood it, since I was a kid. But when I actually read the Scriptures later, I noticed the second part -- it sounds like you could actually *take damage to yourself* by casting those pearls before swine. It's not just a question of wasting your pearls. That is the fascinating part which stuck with me.

    How I personally interpret this passage, is that you could damage your OWN faith by constantly putting your Faith before unbelievers. You have to be very strong, with a deep prayer life, to undo the damage done by the constant "tearing" of unbelievers disparaging your religion.
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    Offline moneil

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #6 on: August 15, 2021, 05:32:22 PM »
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  • This is a very important concept for any Catholic to meditate on, in my humble opinion, though I don’t have a “neat and tidy, theologically correct” answer for the original poster.  There is traditional precedent.  I recall in the 1960’s (I was born in 1951 for chronological reference) my parents were involved with the Legion of Mary.  Members would, at the direction of the parish priest, go in pairs (St. Mark 6:7) to visit primarily the fallen away, but I think also those who had inquired about the Faith.  In that era, and way before, the Knights of Columbus would have a booth at the County Fair and other community festivals, handing out pamphlets and catechisms.
     
    There is a saying “Preach the Gospel always, if necessary use words” which has been attributed to St. Francis of Assisi, but some sources dispute this, I believe the question is yet unsettled.  Regardless, what people observe about our lives and actions usually has far more impact than any words we might say.
     
    A vignette:
     
    My paternal grandfather’s cousin (a favorite relative) Alice Hogan married for the first time in 1947 at the age of 54.  Her spouse was a widowed lapsed Episcopalian.  In 1966 her husband Roy was going in for exploratory cancer surgery (they did not then have the imaging technology available today), the surgeon took one look and sewed Roy back up, the cancer was too advanced to be treated.  He died a week later.  Just before Roy went in for surgery he asked to be received into the Catholic Church and was baptized.  Many years later Alice told me that while she always prayed that her husband would covert she never pressured him.  When he asked to be baptized she asked him why he was deciding then to enter the Church.  He said that during their nearly 20 years of marriage he had seen how much her Catholic faith meant to her, and this prompted him to convert (and the Holy Ghost was no doubt working on this also).  She also mentioned that her husband Roy would drive her to Mass every Sunday and would wait in the car reading the paper.  Whenever the assistant pastor had the Mass she was attending Fr. Schmidt the pastor (who was very close to the Hogan family) would take a cup of coffee out to Roy in the car and sit and visit with him.
     
    A professed woman religious who was a teacher in my Junior High days always used to say “NEVER stop praying for anyone and NEVER give up on them”, and I’ve seen the fruit of this to be true many times.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #7 on: August 15, 2021, 09:54:45 PM »
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  • Some years ago I was telling friend about my Protestant cousin.  I told him that during a phone conversation, I tried to talk about the Church, explaining all the beauties of Our Lord, hoping to help my cousin understand what Catholics believe. I explained that we spoke for a couple of hours but I got no where because my cousin remained obstinate and dismissive. I asked my friend, "What could I have done?"  
    He sat there for a moment and finally said, "Can I ask you a question?"  
    "Sure" I said. 
    "Your cousin... is he hungry? I mean, is he hungry for truth?"  
    I thought about it and I had to answer no.  
    My friend said, "Forget him."  
    I frowned and thought, no! He obviously read my face and explained, "You have hundreds, perhaps thousands of people to spread the faith to, and only minutes to spend on each.  Spend your minutes on those who are hungry, or at least open to truth because those people are everywhere.  Then he told me a story about some workers gathered around a man hole.  They were cursing and going on like men do and my friend noticed they were Mexican and figured someone in one of their families had to have been Catholic.  So he approached them and started to talk about the scapular, offering anyone interested, a new one for free.  The men were a little rude at first, but one started to talk about it, and the rest began to share stories about it, and finally several of the men took a scapular and put it on. This always helps me to decide on how to proceed when I don't know how to handle a difficult case because sometimes we have to rely on prayer when someone isn't ready.               


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #8 on: August 15, 2021, 11:00:51 PM »
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  • Francis said it's okay to evangelize, just don't be serious about it.




    During the recent National Catholic Youth Conference (NCYC) held in Indianapolis on Nov 21, the attendees were greeted with a video message from Pope Francis in which he urged them to witness to their unsaved peers, but to do so without “conviction” and without seeking to “persuade” them or “proselytize” to them.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Hermes

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #9 on: August 15, 2021, 11:08:54 PM »
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  • Francis said it's okay to evangelize, just don't be serious about it.




    During the recent National Catholic Youth Conference (NCYC) held in Indianapolis on Nov 21, the attendees were greeted with a video message from Pope Francis in which he urged them to witness to their unsaved peers, but to do so without “conviction” and without seeking to “persuade” them or “proselytize” to them.

    No witnessing to Jєωs though.

    Conviction, persuasion, proselytizing or otherwise is anathema in witnessing to non-Jєωs albeit eventually forgiven once you make restitution by helping a local NO priest install Grindr in his phone , but any witnessing to Jєωs is an unforgivable and excommunicable crime.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-Jєωs-idUSKBN0TT1BK20151210

    O Fortuna
    Velut luna

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #10 on: August 15, 2021, 11:25:38 PM »
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  • No witnessing to Jєωs though.

    Conviction, persuasion, proselytizing or otherwise is anathema in witnessing to non-Jєωs albeit eventually forgiven once you make restitution by helping a local NO priest install Grindr in his phone , but any witnessing to Jєωs is an unforgivable and excommunicable crime.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-Jєωs-idUSKBN0TT1BK20151210

    I would prefer to evangelize any other person in the world except a Jєω.

    But could this is the truest test of love for Our Lord... to evangelize the Jєω?

    :facepalm:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #11 on: August 16, 2021, 12:56:23 AM »
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  • “And I'd like to never have this type of conversation again about that stuff...I hate repeating in life...lol.. its exhausting 🤣“ says my sister.


    Because I keep pushing.  I guess I need to pray more.  It is exhausting when no one in my family want to hear truth.  She took the vax. She made my nieces take the vax long before it was required.  She has my niece so paranoid that a mechanic had to tell my niece not keep Lysol in her car.

    To be honest having a relationship with my family is hard and not spiritually healthy.  My dad is weak lukewarm.  My family need prayers.  
    Dear VCR,
    I know the feeling because I am the religious loner in my family, and you probably already know that most trads are lonely practitioners in their families of birth.  The exception is the family who is still practicing the traditional faith.

    There is a dual crisis here for many of us, as you are also reporting:  One is the crisis of responsibility and futility with our efforts.  However, God does not ask the impossible of us.  I have many in my family who cannot be "reached" by me directly, via any route among the three Aristotelian appeals, separately invoked or together.  The crisis is that on my own I have not succeeded.  But since -- as with the situation in the world and Church right now-- divine intervention alone will succeed in reversing the decline of those who once believed and those who never believed, it is unrealistic to hold oneself responsible for frustrating outcomes.

    I have found that the more persuasive way is to show them Jesus -- i.e., unconditional love.  I don't mean unconditional about their practical atheism, apostasy, or ultra-worldly lifestyles.  I mean continuing to quietly witness your own practice of the faith while finding common ground in non-religious areas.  This has worked with a lifelong friend of mine (fallen away Catholic who now tells me she is saying her rosary again) and with a former student (former atheist now about to start Divinity School, recently chanted a Latin Mass, and is considering studying Teresa of Avila as part of her M.Div.).  

    The second half of the duality is the pain of realization that there is a limit to how close we can be to obstinate non-believers, since so much of what we should share does become impassable.  

    Both prayer and witness have improved my own situations.  I have only confronted others about their state of belief, the state of their soul, etc. when the relationship was already quite trusting and intimate -- not rife with their defensiveness about the topic.  When I know or sense that directness will backfire, I know that God does not ask me to invite a break in the relationship to prove a point.  When that is the risk, any conversion/reversion attempt is likely to have the most negative outcome.

    Remember that the purpose of prayer is not necessarily to remove our responsibility and put it in God's invisible and mysterious hands, but to make us better instruments at a better time and set of circuмstances than exist now.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #12 on: August 16, 2021, 05:31:34 AM »
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  • Thank you for all your advice.  I am being dragged down.  I have to hand it over to God and work on myself but pray for them.  

    Thank you for your guidance. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #13 on: August 16, 2021, 08:58:38 AM »
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  • I know a an old trad who keeps it simple:

    He evangelizes non Catholics by telling them to:  “Turn or Burn”.

    :cowboy:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Should we push on others to turn to Jesus?
    « Reply #14 on: August 16, 2021, 10:14:10 AM »
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  • Quote
    I know a an old trad who keeps it simple:

    He evangelizes non Catholics by telling them to:  “Turn or Burn”.
    I know a bunch of King James bible only protestant fundamentalists who use the same approach.  Personally I wouldn't be imitating them, and this approach has never been shown to be particularly effective.
    I believe St. Paul gives better advice in 1st Thessalonians 5:14-17:
    14 And we beseech you, brethren, rebuke the unquiet: comfort the feeble minded: support the weak: be patient towards all men.
    15 See that none render evil for evil to any man: but ever follow that which is good towards each other and towards all men.
    16 Always rejoice.
    17 Pray without ceasing.

    Yes indeed there is "rebuke", but also comfort, support, patience, rendering not evil but following that which is good, and especially praying without ceasing.  God always has a better approach than what our fallen human nature devises.