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Author Topic: should I be a seda? uncertain  (Read 14225 times)

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Offline Meg

Re: should I be a seda? uncertain
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2018, 01:38:24 PM »
Quote from: Cantarella on January 12, 2018, 01:35:58 PM
I thought the followers of +Lefebvre also have an issue with jurisdiction?

How so?
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Offline Cantarella

Re: should I be a seda? uncertain
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2018, 01:58:51 PM »
Quote from: Meg on January 12, 2018, 01:38:24 PM
How so?

I believe that having an "issue with jurisdiction" can be said to be a common element among all traditionalists not in communion with Rome at present time. Not only the sedevacantists.

I don't think you can sucessfully argue a similarity between the Old Catholics and the sedevacantists simply over "the issue of jurisdiction", especially from a separatist R&R stance.
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Offline Meg

Re: should I be a seda? uncertain
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2018, 02:03:14 PM »
Quote from: Cantarella on January 12, 2018, 01:58:51 PM

I don't think you can sucessfully argue a similarity between the Old Catholics and the sedevacantists simply over "the issue of jurisdiction", especially from a separatist R&R stance.

If you believe that there's no similarity between Old Catholic and sedes regarding jurisdiction, that's your choice. I see a similarity.
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Offline Beacon of the Sspx

Re: should I be a seda? uncertain
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2018, 02:27:02 PM »
No. The papal election is not infallible. Its a canonical election just as when an abott is elected in a monastery. But, the pope cannot cease to be a pope just because of material heresy. Legally, the cardinals in the church have to recognize the pope for the pope to have his office.we have a classical state of legal and illicitness here. Legally in a sense he is pope, but he should not be. 
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: should I be a seda? uncertain
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2018, 02:43:03 PM »
Quote from: Meg on January 12, 2018, 12:36:13 PM
Applying a probable opinion, no. They usually believe with absolute certainty that the Pope isn't the Pope, or as in your case, that the pope has limited jurisdiction, and anyone who disagrees is a heretic.

The Old Catholics had an issue with jurisdiction. Do you not also have an issue with jurisdiction?



... conflating and confounding things as usual.  St. Robert Bellarmine's opinion is a probable Catholic opinion.  That is the opinion I referred to as probable.  Now SOME (not all, but some) SVs believe that the non-legitimacy of the V2 popes is essentially de fide; these are known as DOGMATIC sedevacantists.  Others believe that it's certain or very probable or rather likely ... or some degree of probability.  I fall into the category of those who consider it highly probable.  Some "sedes" are in fact sedeprivationists who believe that these papal claimants hold a material legitimacy but do not formally exercise power.

Uhm, all Catholics believe in jurisdiction.  What's disputed is whether the V2 papal claimants have some or all or no jurisdiction due to their state of illegitimacy.
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