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Author Topic: Shocking review of Popes new book  (Read 5372 times)

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Offline stevusmagnus

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Shocking review of Popes new book
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2011, 08:48:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Answer: Start your own forum where those who do not see things as you do are not welcome.


    You completely missed the point, as usual, but don't let that stop you.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Shocking review of Popes new book
    « Reply #31 on: March 11, 2011, 09:51:31 PM »
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  • The point is you are a damn baby who feels the need to continually whine about how things are run around here.  You made your pleas, telling Matthew how he should run his forum.  Now...

    Shut your damn mouth and take things as they are, or go somewhere else.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Shocking review of Popes new book
    « Reply #32 on: March 11, 2011, 10:00:57 PM »
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  • I'm not telling him how he should run his forum.

    I'm presenting a different option that I don't think I mentioned before and expressing the fact, which still remains, that hardly any comment can be made on the Crisis thread without it leading into a sedevacantism debate.

    If that's the way it remains fine, but I thought it my duty to bring attention to the fact that practically every relevant Crisis discussion involves sedevacatism. It is very difficult to discuss the Pope's comments and the impact they have without sedes assuming it means he is anti-pope and then name calling when one disagrees.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #33 on: March 12, 2011, 09:13:23 AM »
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  • I am not going to invest the time to dig through your past posts, but you have mentioned the same idea/made similar complaints in the past.

    If you review the crisis folder's recently-posted contents, you will find that you have started a lot of threads.  Sure, SOME have come to include sede-ish comments, etc., but MOST have just not been responded to by anyone, sv or otherwise.

    Again, roll with the punches and don't bother crying about it all.  It does not become you, stevus.  Do YOUR thing, leaving others to do as they will.  Trust the process, such as it is.  If a REAL problem arises, past experience has shown that Matthew will eventually learn of it and take the appropriate action.  Godspeed.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Shocking review of Popes new book
    « Reply #34 on: March 12, 2011, 09:24:00 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    This is why I've asked in the past for there to be a separate Crisis section for non-sedes.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."


    Offline MyrnaM

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    Shocking review of Popes new book
    « Reply #35 on: March 12, 2011, 10:33:13 AM »
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  • I get the feeling that people who do not want sedevacantist to comment here or anywhere is because, sedevacantist make sense to them and they can't defend what their pope is doing.  Therefore they want to close their ears.  

    Take the Feeny people here, I don't mind they comment because they make no sense to me.  They can blabber all they want about God's none mercy.  Of course this is  just my opinion.  
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline Jehanne

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    Shocking review of Popes new book
    « Reply #36 on: March 12, 2011, 10:44:33 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    I get the feeling that people who do not want sedevacantist to comment here or anywhere is because, sedevacantist make sense to them and they can't defend what their pope is doing.  Therefore they want to close their ears.  

    Take the Feeny people here, I don't mind they comment because they make no sense to me.  They can blabber all they want about God's none mercy.  Of course this is  just my opinion.  


    A lot of modernists use the same excuse with infants who die without Baptism.  Not to be belligerent but it's "Feeney," just a typo I am sure.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #37 on: March 12, 2011, 11:14:50 AM »
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  • As a Catholic I believe infants who die without Baptism are not condemned, but are stained with original sin, therefore they reside in Limbo and experience a natural happiness.  

    Some  even theorize they may be given a chance at the end of time, a test.  This is not dogma but a theory.  I myself have no opinion about it, it is in God's hands.  

    The unbaptized babies have expeirenced the mercy of God.

    Thanks for the correction about Feeney, I appreciate it, I am not the best at spelling
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline Jehanne

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    Shocking review of Popes new book
    « Reply #38 on: March 12, 2011, 11:58:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    As a Catholic I believe infants who die without Baptism are not condemned, but are stained with original sin, therefore they reside in Limbo and experience a natural happiness.  

    Some  even theorize they may be given a chance at the end of time, a test.  This is not dogma but a theory.  I myself have no opinion about it, it is in God's hands.  

    The unbaptized babies have expeirenced the mercy of God.

    Thanks for the correction about Feeney, I appreciate it, I am not the best at spelling


    If you are going to "theorize they may be given a chance at the end of time, a test," then you might as well embrace all of Vatican II as well as at least the possibility of universal salvation.  This is, however, where traditional Catholics such as myself and modern ones part company, for the Council of Carthage (418) declared this:

    "It has been decided likewise that if anyone says that for this reason the Lord said: 'In my father’s house there are many mansions' (John 14:2): that it might be understood that in the kingdom of heaven there will be some middle place or some place anywhere where the blessed infants live who departed from this life without baptism, without which they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, which is eternal life, let him be anathema. For when the lord says :'Unless a man be born of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the kingdom of God' (John 3:5), what Catholic will doubt that he will be partner of the devil who has not deserved to be a co-heir of Christ? For he who lacks the right part will without doubt run into the left." (Canon 3.1, Council of Carthage, Denzinger 102 fn.2; 30th edition)

    Even though the Council of Carthage was a regional Council and, therefore, technically not binding upon the universal Church, St. Pope Zosimus published Carthage’s canons as his own, which made them infallible and binding upon the universal Church. This is referred to in the Council of Ephesus. Pope Zosimus' Tractoria was sent to the whole world:

    ”…Pope Zosimus of blessed memory directs us, when writing to the bishops of the whole world…” (Ephesus; Denzinger 134)

    "The same teacher Zosimus trained us, who, when spoke to the the bishops of the whole world….” (Ephesus; Denzinger 135)

    "We[Zozimus], however, by the inspiration of God…have referred all things to that of our brothers and co-bishops." (Ephesus; Denzinger 134)

    This is the beginning of his Tractoria and it tells us all things are referred to the African bishops, which is why the Council of Carthage received this great praise:

    "Furthermore that which was determined in the decrees of the synod of Cathage [418 AD], we have embraced as the Apostolic See’s own…” (Ephesus; Denzinger 136), and,

    "But although we do not dare to esteem lightly the deeper and more difficult parts of the questions which they [Augustine and Zozimus] have treated in more detail who have restrained the heretics, we do not consider it necessary to add what their writings, according to the aforementioned regulation of the Apostolic See, have taught us…" (Ephesus; Denzinger 142)

    So, if you are going to abandon Carthage, you might as well abandon everything that came before and after it.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #39 on: March 12, 2011, 02:28:50 PM »
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  • Quote
    If you are going to "theorize they may be given a chance at the end of time, a test," then you might as well embrace all of Vatican II as well as at least the possibility of universal salvation.  This is, however, where traditional Catholics such as myself and modern ones part company, for the Council of Carthage (418) declared this:


    First, it is not my theory, I only stated that because I read or heard early theologians thought it might be that way.

    Until something is pronounced a dogma, Catholics are free to think about things that are unknown to us, as long as we don't start teaching them as dogmatic.  Before Our Lady was pronounced the Immaculate Conception, good and holy Catholics would discuss this issue.  When the pope pronounce it as dogma, there was no room for debate anymore.  

    I believe everything the Catholic church teaches, and C.M.R.I. teaches the same way I was taught.  Prior to Vatican II, it might interest you to know that in Catholic school, at least my Catholic school, taught that everyone can fall from grace, even a pope.  If the pope started teaching heresy, he would no longer be pope.  Although a true pope can be in mortal sin and still be pope, I am not saying he has to be without sin.

    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #40 on: March 12, 2011, 11:43:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    The way things look is the world, who knows it may be our last Lent on Earth.  Make it a fruitful one  


    This is very wise. The recent cataclysms in the Pacific Ocean have made these words unnervingly insightful.

    Another thought that is good to have is to receive every Holy Communion with the same fervor and devotion wherewith you would receive Holy Viaticuм, because every Holy Communion may very well be one's Viaticuм (with traditional Priests so few and far between, chances are we won't be able to receive the Sacraments in case we die far away from a traditional Priest or if a widespread calamity assails our locality and the Priest has so many souls to tend).
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #41 on: March 12, 2011, 11:53:57 PM »
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  • Jehanne, do you believe in limbo?  

    Myrna, what on Earth do you mean about a test at the end of time for dead unbaptized babies?  That is heretical, it's given to man to die once, and then the judgment.  You're suggesting some kind of alternate life, an alternate dimension.  You say early theologians believed in this?  Would you happen to have a quote?  

    The babies are in limbo and have a natural happiness, as you said, leave it at that.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #42 on: March 13, 2011, 12:03:47 AM »
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  • Jehanne said:
    Quote
    "It has been decided likewise that if anyone says that for this reason the Lord said: 'In my father’s house there are many mansions' (John 14:2): that it might be understood that in the kingdom of heaven there will be some middle place or some place anywhere where the blessed infants live who departed from this life without baptism, without which they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, which is eternal life, let him be anathema. For when the lord says :'Unless a man be born of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the kingdom of God' (John 3:5), what Catholic will doubt that he will be partner of the devil who has not deserved to be a co-heir of Christ? For he who lacks the right part will without doubt run into the left." (Canon 3.1, Council of Carthage, Denzinger 102 fn.2; 30th edition)


    Limbo is not part of the kingdom of heaven, so it doesn't contradict the Council of Carthage.

    You haven't figured something out that no one figured out before you, Jehanne.  I hope that doesn't wound your pride.  Lots of Popes knew a lot more than you and saw no contradiction.  If you can't accept this, you're in trouble.

    Stop reading about baptism of desire, and get some books about the saints, St. Gemma, St. Bernard, St. Alphonsus, St. Catherine, learn how the saints thought, talked and acted, that is the cure for the scrupes.  This is DEFINITELY a trap of the devil, all this Feeneyism stuff, it's a direct attack on intellectual pride, it relies on people who just have to know who is saved and who is damned, i.e. people who are playing God.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Raoul76

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    « Reply #43 on: March 13, 2011, 12:10:39 AM »
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  • It's amusing in a kind of perverse way how Stevus doesn't see how he is precisely like those he decries, the "Neo-Caths" on Catholic Answers, constantly attempting to stifle debate, afraid of hearing another angle on the crisis that isn't his own.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Jehanne

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    « Reply #44 on: March 13, 2011, 07:19:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    The babies are in limbo and have a natural happiness, as you said, leave it at that.


    Perfect.