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Author Topic: Pius 9 against the thesis?  (Read 5187 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Pius 9 against the thesis?
« on: February 26, 2024, 11:58:26 PM »
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  • Does this quote put a stop to the material/formal office distinction?

    Quote
    Pope Pius IX, Vatican I, 1870, Sess. 4, Chap. 3, ex cathedra: “If anyone thus speaks, that the Roman Pontiff has only the office of inspection or direction, but not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the universal Church… let him be anathema.” (Denz. 1831)


    Offline Univocity

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    Re: Pius 9 against the thesis?
    « Reply #1 on: February 27, 2024, 05:28:47 AM »
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  • No.  They do not say that Bergoglio et al are/were Roman Pontiffs.  The semivacantist theory ("the thesis") is wrong and dangerous, but it is not a heresy.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Pius 9 against the thesis?
    « Reply #2 on: February 27, 2024, 05:42:46 AM »
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  • Not at all … has nothing to do with the Thesis.  This is along the same lines as the misinterpretation of “perpetual succession”.

    And both misinterpretations are clearly exposed by simple practical examples. 

    We have interregna on a regular basis, sometimes for years, and that doesn’t compromise perpetual succession.  Now think about what it really means.

    Similarly, if a layman were to be elected pope, or even a priest or monk who isn’t a bishop, he becomes pope in a sense immediately upon acceptance but cannot EXERCISE the plentitude of papal authority until he’s consecrated a bishop.  No layman can have apostolic authority, nor can someone who’s not part of the Teaching Church teach the Church.

    What this means is that the formal nature of papal authority entails full and supreme jurisdiction over the entire Church, not that every individual who’s elected necessarily possesses all of papal authority.  This is condemning the error of those who hold that papal authority per se is limited by certain checks and balances.

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Pius 9 against the thesis?
    « Reply #3 on: February 27, 2024, 05:55:06 AM »
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  • Does this quote put a stop to the material/formal office distinction?
    This quote from Pio Nono is directed at those Gallicans, Febronians, and Josephists of the 18th and 19th centuries who held that the authority of the Roman Pontiff is limited to a merely mediated, supervisory rôle in relation to local Churches rather than an immediate, universal primacy of jurisdiction.

    This quote has nothing to do with the Thesis and the current problem of the Papacy.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila