Author Topic: Serious questions  (Read 2965 times)

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Offline DeMaistre

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Serious questions
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2009, 08:36:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    DeMaistre, is it true that you think BoD is a heresy?


    Yes.

    Quote
    Where do you go to church?  Are you under a priest and bishop?


    Anywhere that I "go to church" is against my will, I do it only out of respect for my parents.




    Offline CM

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    « Reply #31 on: June 23, 2009, 08:39:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raoul76
    I believe in BoD and BoB because the CATHOLIC CHURCH tells me to, not just "some men."


    Wrong.  The Catholic Church only tells you what She has declared by God the Holy Ghost.  Fallible men, saints or not, can make mistakes, but you lump them and all the clergy together as though THEY are the Catholic Church's teaching authority.  No.  The Solemn Magisterium is the end of the line, top of the mountain, cream of the crop and final interpretation of Scripture and Tradition.  You break Divine Law and become a heretic if you say about any of the decrees in this Magisterium that they either do not apply, or deny them by saying that they can be understood in ways that contradict other infallible decrees.

    Quote from: Raoul76
     There has to be some order here.  Just because the last five Popes are apostates doesn't mean we are freed to suddenly rifle through Church history throwing out whomever we choose.  The sedevacantist crisis is not an excuse to go on a power-trip.


    I am not on a power trip at all.  I know what the Truth is, that all God's words are true and must be believed and obeyed, and I am standing up for it.

    Quote from: Raoul76
    You start off against BoD and then to defend this you make Benedict XV an anti-Pope.


    Another straw man.  I reject Benedict XV because he mixes explicit statement teaching universal salvation with others that seem orthodox, among other reasons.  He is a captious and heretical deceiver.  His belief or non-belief in BoD is a non-issue, as is his heretical '1917 Code', which he only approved in forma communi anyway (so that could not make him a heretic, just a lazy pope who allowed the promulgation of sinful and heretical disciplinary laws, without teaching heretical doctrine).  But he was a heretic on other accounts (universal salvation, Christianity existing outside the Catholic Church, etc.) and thus an antipope.

    Quote from: Raoul76
    ...You graciously consent that Aquinas was not a heretic because he suggested a belief in BoD before your arbitrary definition of when some Pope defined the necessity of water baptism using the word "or" in a way that only you understand.


    Here you are misrepresenting my position again.  You are either dishonest or too lazy to refute my actual position.

    You accuse me of arbitrarily 'defining' when 'some pope' defined the necessity of water baptism.  I did nothing of the sort.  And it has nothing to do with the word 'or' in Trent, nor my understanding of it.

    Pope Pope ClementV, Council of Vienne, 1311-1312, ex cathedra: "Besides, one baptism which regenerates all who are baptized in Christ must be faithfully confessed by all just as 'one God and one faith' [Eph. 4:5], which celebrated in water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit we believe to be commonly the perfect remedy for salvation for adults as for children."

    This decree states that nobody is baptized in Christ except through the one baptism celebrated in water.  Someone cannot, then, be baptized in Christ by desire or blood or in any other way.

    Quote from: Raoul76
    What's next, you want to take Augustine out of the Church because Protestants used his arguments as a basis for their theory of salvation by faith alone and human lack of free will?  When does it end when someone sets themselves up as the judge and jury without submitting to the hierarchy ( which is now the sedevacantist priesthood )?  The answer is never.


    No, that is not my 'next stop'.  Augustine never contradicted the Solemn Magisterium of his day, now, did he?  And no, no, no, the sedevacantist clergy who believe in heresies such as BoD and NFP are not the hierarchy because they are not Catholic.

    Quote from: Raoul76
    ...Do you expect me not to pick a side?  Especially when your side leads to home-aloner mania?  Please tell me, who in the world besides yourself do you think is Catholic?  I want to know.


    I see. What you call "home-aloner mania" is what you are really afraid of.  So if BoD is a heresy, then you have to change your lifestyle and reject those with whom you are currently associated.

    And as for other Catholics, what do you want?  Their names and numbers so you can harass them too?


    Offline CM

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    « Reply #32 on: June 23, 2009, 08:42:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: DeMaistre
    Quote
    Where do you go to church?  Are you under a priest and bishop?


    Anywhere that I "go to church" is against my will, I do it only out of respect for my parents.


    What!?  Don't you realize that this is against the Ten Commandments?  You honour your mother and father by standing up for the Truth and showing them how they are mistaken!  You definitely do NOT break the 1st commandment so that you can pretend to uphold the fourth.

    Offline Prodinoscopus

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    « Reply #33 on: June 23, 2009, 09:01:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: Catholic Martyr
    Quote from: DeMaistre
    Quote
    Where do you go to church?  Are you under a priest and bishop?


    Anywhere that I "go to church" is against my will, I do it only out of respect for my parents.


    What!?  Don't you realize that this is against the Ten Commandments?  You honour your mother and father by standing up for the Truth and showing them how they are mistaken!  You definitely do NOT break the 1st commandment so that you can pretend to uphold the fourth.

    What, is the kid going to hell unless he disobeys his parents? Why, because he doesn't follow your unique application of Catholic dogma?

    Like the Pharisees whom our Lord condemned, you lay heavy burdens on people's backs without lifting a finger to help them.
    Exile in Novus Ordo land ... please pray for me!

    Offline CM

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    « Reply #34 on: June 23, 2009, 09:16:54 PM »
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  • Now that was a ridiculous reply Prodinoscopus.

    First you implicitly relegate obedience of the 1st Commandment to being a matter of convenience.

    Second, you imply that it is I who place this burden upon him, when in fact it is Divine and natural Law that prohibits worship of any but the one true God.

    Third you say "without lifting a finger to help him," as though there were something I could do, other than to point out his duty to resist all 'authority' that commands him to sin.


    Offline CM

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    « Reply #35 on: June 23, 2009, 09:18:18 PM »
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  • Let me ask you a question Prodinoscopus:

    If Caesar commanded you to bow to an idol... oh nevermind.

    Offline Prodinoscopus

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    « Reply #36 on: June 23, 2009, 09:36:34 PM »
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  • Oh, of course, Mr. Catholic Martyr-wannabe, you are the only person on this board who would not falter under threat of death.

    You make the most extreme sedevacantist look like a happy-clappy Novus Ordite. You have made of yourself a Church of one.
    Exile in Novus Ordo land ... please pray for me!

    Offline Prodinoscopus

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    « Reply #37 on: June 23, 2009, 09:52:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: Catholic Martyr
    Now that was a ridiculous reply Prodinoscopus.

    First you implicitly relegate obedience of the 1st Commandment to being a matter of convenience.

    Second, you imply that it is I who place this burden upon him, when in fact it is Divine and natural Law that prohibits worship of any but the one true God.

    Third you say "without lifting a finger to help him," as though there were something I could do, other than to point out his duty to resist all 'authority' that commands him to sin.

    1. Your own sense of absolute certainty notwithstanding, it is not de fide and binding on anyone else's conscience that attending a non-sede Traditionalist Mass (or even a Novus Ordo Mass) is a violation of the 1st Commandment. It is an unsettled matter of opinion.

    2. Your second point still begs the same question as the first.

    3. If you actually knew DeMaistre and could speak with him face-to-face, you might be able to help him in ways other than thundering your anathemas from behind an anonymous avatar on an internet discussion board. Have the wisdom to understand the limits of your medium.
    Exile in Novus Ordo land ... please pray for me!


    Offline CM

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    « Reply #38 on: June 23, 2009, 10:39:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: Prodinscopus
    1. Your own sense of absolute certainty notwithstanding, it is not de fide and binding on anyone else's conscience that attending a non-sede Traditionalist Mass (or even a Novus Ordo Mass) is a violation of the 1st Commandment. It is an unsettled matter of opinion.


    Your opinion.  He said 'against his will', so obviously his conscience objects and he does not share your opinion, unless he chose his words poorly.  Do you think that one may do something that one believes to be a sin and remain free from guilt?

    Quote from: Prodinoscopus
    Oh, of course, Mr. Catholic Martyr-wannabe, you are the only person on this board who would not falter under threat of death.


    I never said that and you're putting words in my mouth like so many others on this board.  It is transparent calumny and not very classy.

    You know that it is wrong to bow before idols or any false gods, even under pain of death, how much more so attending something you believe to be false worship when your parents tell you to?

    Offline Prodinoscopus

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    « Reply #39 on: June 24, 2009, 07:08:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: Catholic Martyr
    Quote from: Prodinscopus
    1. Your own sense of absolute certainty notwithstanding, it is not de fide and binding on anyone else's conscience that attending a non-sede Traditionalist Mass (or even a Novus Ordo Mass) is a violation of the 1st Commandment. It is an unsettled matter of opinion.


    Your opinion.  He said 'against his will', so obviously his conscience objects and he does not share your opinion, unless he chose his words poorly.  Do you think that one may do something that one believes to be a sin and remain free from guilt?

    Quote from: Prodinoscopus
    Oh, of course, Mr. Catholic Martyr-wannabe, you are the only person on this board who would not falter under threat of death.


    I never said that and you're putting words in my mouth like so many others on this board.  It is transparent calumny and not very classy.

    You know that it is wrong to bow before idols or any false gods, even under pain of death, how much more so attending something you believe to be false worship when your parents tell you to?

    DeMaistre's opinion on sedevacantism appears to be unsettled.
    Exile in Novus Ordo land ... please pray for me!

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    « Reply #40 on: June 24, 2009, 03:25:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Prodinoscopus
    Oh, of course, Mr. Catholic Martyr-wannabe, you are the only person on this board who would not falter under threat of death.

    You make the most extreme sedevacantist look like a happy-clappy Novus Ordite. You have made of yourself a Church of one.


    I'm sorry, but now, I can't stop laughing.  :roll-laugh1:

     :popcorn:
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


    Offline CM

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    « Reply #41 on: June 24, 2009, 10:18:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: parentsfortruth
    I'm sorry, but now, I can't stop laughing.  :roll-laugh1:

     :popcorn:


    Well, you know that's not really what this is all about.  This is about salvation and is a rather serious matter.

    Offline DeMaistre

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    « Reply #42 on: June 24, 2009, 10:21:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Catholic Martyr
    Quote from: parentsfortruth
    I'm sorry, but now, I can't stop laughing.  :roll-laugh1:

     :popcorn:


    Well, you know that's not really what this is all about.  This is about salvation and is a rather serious matter.


    Indeed.

     

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