Author Topic: Serious questions (Read 7639 times)

Raoul76 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 23, 2009, 06:54:08 PM »

And is that a bullfight you have in your icon?

I rest my case.

Prodinoscopus · « **Reply #26 on:** June 23, 2009, 07:16:50 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Let me ask you something Mr. Prodinoscopus: Do you believe Nero is in hell?

I think it is very likely that Nero is in hell, but I do not know that he is in hell.

Let me ask you a question, Mr. Catholic Martyr: why is it so important for you to know that certain individual people are in hell?

Prodinoscopus · « **Reply #27 on:** June 23, 2009, 07:21:30 PM »

D***it, Raoul76, sometimes you are very wise.

CM · « **Reply #28 on:** June 23, 2009, 07:41:47 PM »

Quote from: Prodinoscopus

Quote from: Catholic Martyr
Let me ask you something Mr. Prodinoscopus: Do you believe Nero is in hell?

I think it is very likely that Nero is in hell, but I do not know that he is in hell.

Let me ask you a question, Mr. Catholic Martyr: why is it so important for you to know that certain individual people are in hell?

You changed the word 'believe' into 'know', thus changing the whole discussion, and trying to put words in my mouth. No, sir I never said anyone knows that anyone else is in hell, nor must they. But it is foolishly imprudent to believe contrary to the tenets of the Faith and hope for anything contrary to the same tenets.

Quote from: Raoul76

And is that a bullfight you have in your icon?

I rest my case.

That's a lion looking at a group of delicious Christians.

You rest your case? You have no case, just more psychobabble. You believe a heresy, BoD, because so many men tell you to and so you attack me, yes indeed unjustly.

Unlike a certain someone I know (not from this forum), I do not want to be nor do I think myself the only Catholic in the world.

I find it telling that you would recognize the unjust nature of your comment and fling it nonetheless.

By the way, I hate invective. I find it counterproductive and I think you'll be hard pressed to quote me using it. There is a big difference between invective and calling heresy heresy, and asserting that it's willful believers go to hell. Caminus uses invective, with no backup other than his opinions. I assert the Truth and I present the authoritative teachings from whence It is extracted.

And for the record, I'm not driven by hate. Hatred of sin is only one of many factors motivating me, in addition to contrition, or attrition, maybe, I don't really know which. I don't think we can know.

Anyway, if ad hominem will make you feel better and draw people away from the fact that Baptism of Desire is truly untenable in Catholic Theology, then I certainly understand why you and others continually use it.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #29 on:** June 23, 2009, 08:07:41 PM »

Sorry about the bullfight accusation.

I believe in BoD and BoB because the CATHOLIC CHURCH tells me to, not just "some men." There has to be some order here. Just because the last five Popes are apostates doesn't mean we are freed to suddenly rifle through Church history throwing out whomever we choose. The sedevacantist crisis is not an excuse to go on a power-trip. You start off against BoD and then to defend this you make Benedict XV an anti-Pope. Then you realized that Bellarmine supported BoD so you say he is a heretic. You graciously consent that Aquinas was not a heretic because he suggested a belief in BoD before your arbitrary definition of when some Pope defined the necessity of water baptism using the word "or" in a way that only you understand. What's next, you want to take Augustine out of the Church because Protestants used his arguments as a basis for their theory of salvation by faith alone and human lack of free will? When does it end when someone sets themselves up as the judge and jury without submitting to the hierarchy ( which is now the sedevacantist priesthood )? The answer is never.

You are acting like a force of destruction, not unity, don't you see that? On my side there is Bishop Dolan and Bishop Pivarunas and their priests in America, numerous traditional priests, numerous French and Polish sedevacantist priests, as well as the Siri-ites and sedeprivationists. On your side... Michael and Peter Dimond ( and those aren't even their real names, nor, from what I understand, are they real monks ). Granted, one side is not correct because it has greater numbers. Vatican II has the greatest numbers of all. But I believe in the Catholicity of the men that I've cited and they all have a coherent policy of picking up where Pius XII -- by no means an anti-Pope and a hugely underrated Vicar of Christ who correctly assessed the evil on both sides of World War II -- left off. I disagree with these men on certain aspects of history and politics but am in complete union with them on the faith.

Do you expect me not to pick a side? Especially when your side leads to home-aloner mania? Please tell me, who in the world besides yourself do you think is Catholic? I want to know.