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Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?

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Total Members Voted: 28

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Author Topic: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?  (Read 26933 times)

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Offline Argentino

Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #165 on: July 10, 2020, 04:11:08 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 10, 2020, 03:12:33 PM
You're completely befuddled and missing the entire point.  Some most likely did consider the others to be in a different Church.  Others realized that they could be formally within the Church while materially outside.

But it remained true that people wondered where OBJECTIVELY the Church was, not merely formally.  OBJECTIVELY, subjection to the actual objective pope is necessary to be within the Church.

Making a "point" is different than whether something was actually an historical fact and in the minds of those who lived that historical event. It's been a long time since the so-called Western Schism. No books have stated any such thing, which shows you are doing your own reasoning and claiming an historical fact that simply was not.
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Offline forlorn

Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #166 on: July 15, 2020, 05:57:23 AM »
Quote from: Argentino on July 10, 2020, 04:11:08 PM
Making a "point" is different than whether something was actually an historical fact and in the minds of those who lived that historical event. It's been a long time since the so-called Western Schism. No books have stated any such thing, which shows you are doing your own reasoning and claiming an historical fact that simply was not.
The raising of the oriflamme is a historical fact.

People abandoning their towns so they could be under submission to a different pope is a historical fact.

Both of those things are clear recognitions that the opposing side(s) were viewed to not be part of the Church by many.
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Offline Argentino

Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #167 on: July 15, 2020, 10:19:53 AM »
Quote from: forlorn on July 15, 2020, 05:57:23 AM
The raising of the oriflamme is a historical fact.

People abandoning their towns so they could be under submission to a different pope is a historical fact.

Both of those things are clear recognitions that the opposing side(s) were viewed to not be part of the Church by many.
Caring who is the true pope is not equivalent to rejecting the other papal claimaints as being not a part of the Church.

Find me something in a pre-Vatican II book that you think supports you, and I will read it.
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #168 on: July 15, 2020, 10:36:12 AM »
Quote from: Argentino on July 15, 2020, 10:19:53 AM
Caring who is the true pope is not equivalent to rejecting the other papal claimaints as being not a part of the Church.

Find me something in a pre-Vatican II book that you think supports you, and I will read it.
Hi Argentino,

I posted this as a result of the discussion here regarding the Great Western Schism.  I was surprised o read in this CE entry that the various anti-popes excommunicated each other.  This would lead me to believe that there is at least some truth to what the others are saying here.

https://www.cathinfo.com/crisis-in-the-church/great-western-schism-(catholic-encyclopedia-1912)/msg707252/#msg707252
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Offline forlorn

Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #169 on: July 16, 2020, 06:08:53 AM »
Quote from: Argentino on July 15, 2020, 10:19:53 AM
Caring who is the true pope is not equivalent to rejecting the other papal claimaints as being not a part of the Church.

Find me something in a pre-Vatican II book that you think supports you, and I will read it.
If the other claimants are part of the Church, you wouldn't raise a flag of holy war against them.

If the other claimants are part of the Church, you wouldn't move and risk your entire livelihood just so you could attend a Mass in a diocese that didn't pray for them. 

It's a matter of fact that the claimants excommunicated each other, and the people clearly recognised those excommunications with their actions. And even if they hadn't, it's not the laity who decides who is and isn't in the Church.
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