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Poll

Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?

Become an R&R Traditionalist
12 (35.3%)
Become an Indult Traditionalist
6 (17.6%)
Become an NO Cath Conservative
9 (26.5%)
Become a very liberal Catholic
1 (2.9%)
Cease to practice Catholicism
6 (17.6%)

Total Members Voted: 28

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Author Topic: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?  (Read 27037 times)

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Offline Struthio

Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #135 on: July 08, 2020, 08:32:15 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 08, 2020, 08:30:03 PM
Ahhh.  So earlier, you posted that an ecuмenical council was infallible, but I proved that wrong from actual article you posted.  Now you're using the term "general council" as opposed to "ecuмenical" to avoid the contradiction with NewAdvent.com?  I see your agenda.

I still hold that an ecuмenical council is infallible. And your heretical friend Viganò calls the robber council ecuмenical.
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #136 on: July 08, 2020, 08:36:21 PM »
Quote
You got to check your logic. The Vatican Council does neither define that the Pope is infallible "if and only if" (but rather that the Pope is infallible "if"), nor does the Vatican Council define in which way a Pope has to confirm a general Council to be an infallible Council, nor does the Vatican Council define that nothing but a Pope or nothing but a Pope or a Council may be teaching infallibly.
A true council, guided by the Holy Ghost, such as Vatican 1, is not there to deceive, nor to be a legal quagmire of complexity.  We must take an infallible council as the word of God:  "If the pope fulfills x, y, and z, then he is infallible".  
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It is not left to the laity or clerics to "second guess" or to "re-interpret" what the Holy Ghost "left out" or "forgot to say".
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Any opinion or interpretation you have related to the above is of hubris alone.  It's the height of arrogance that you can criticize a doctrine in the way you do.  It is truly schismatic.
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #137 on: July 08, 2020, 08:36:53 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 08, 2020, 08:18:49 PM
"Pastoral magisterium" (i.e.  made up theological term) = fallible, not-protected-from-error=able-to-be-heresy theological opinion,  

And your distinction is equally "made up".  And you keep harping on infallibility and completely ignoring the problem for indefectibility.

I honestly have no idea what kind of HOLY Catholic Church you people believe in, that you can attribute grave error and destruction of souls to the Catholic Magisterium.  This borders on blasphemy.  Archbishop Lefebvre himself admitted the principle that this is not possible due to the protection of the Church and of the Papacy by the Holy Ghost.  He simply didn't know what the answer was.  Archbishop Lefebvre NEVER promoted this perverse R&R that we have today which attributes these horrors to the Catholic Magisterium.

You also all arguably fall under Trent's anathema against those who claim that the Rites used by the Church can be defective.
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #138 on: July 08, 2020, 08:38:25 PM »
Quote from: Struthio on July 08, 2020, 08:30:55 PM
Viganò has confessed 50 years of worship of men! He even admits to have known that the Council is heretical, but suppressed his knowledge of truth out of love for men.

That's not what he said.  He said that for years he believed that it was a question of ambiguity and that it could be interpreted in an orthodox manner applying the hermeneutic of continuity.
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #139 on: July 08, 2020, 08:39:44 PM »
Quote
Formulae were a person act and was not some teaching issued to the Universal Church.
Yet V2 was not a teaching/binding act of the Church, but a pastoral/advisory/novel/fallible magisterial legal trick. 
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