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Poll

Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?

Become an R&R Traditionalist
12 (35.3%)
Become an Indult Traditionalist
6 (17.6%)
Become an NO Cath Conservative
9 (26.5%)
Become a very liberal Catholic
1 (2.9%)
Cease to practice Catholicism
6 (17.6%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Author Topic: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?  (Read 27035 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter

Quote
With Vatican II we have the putative Magisterium actively undermining the faith and we have public liturgical rites that are offensive to God. 
And Arianism didn’t actively undermine the Faith?  Yes. Were there not Arian masses and sacrilegious communions that saints suffered martyrdom instead of participating in?  Yes.  
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If a pope is involved in the deception vs just weak, does it change the fact that 98% of the hierarchy were Arian just like 98% are now modernist?  As long as the pope does not attempt to bind the faithful to error, his heresy is has no bearing on the Church’s inerrancy, just like the 98% of Arian bishops don’t either.  

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Therefore, it's not ecuмenical.

Whether or not a Council decides to issue a solemn definition, the understanding of the Church has always been that when a moral universality of the bishops (i.e. nearly all of them) get together and teach in union with the Pope, that the teaching is protected from any substantial grave error by the Holy Spirit.

R&R completely dismiss or ignore that the Magsiterium OVERALL is guided and protected by the Holy Spirit.  That doesn't mean there can't be a slight error here or there, but nothing substantial that would ever endanger souls or the faith.

From the CE article cited earlier:
Quote
The infallibility proper to the pope is not, however, the only formal adequate ground of the council's infallibility. The Divine constitution of the Church and the promises of Divine assistance made by her Founder, guarantee her inerrancy, in matters pertaining to faith and morals, independently of the pope's infallibility: a fallible pope supporting, and supported by, a council, would still pronounce infallible decisions.

It's because of the overall "promises of Divine assitance made by her Founder" to the Church that a legitimate Ecuмenical Council is not capable of practically destroying the Church.  It's because of the indefectiblity of the Church.


Well said.

Just my opinion: the sedes and their fellow travellers don't care if there's a Church, or not. The Sedes have their private faith and their soapbox, and that seems good enough for them. No Church needed.
Hah! That's rich. R&R will happily ignore and reject everything the Church says or does, condemn it, deride it, say it's full of heretics, ignore all the laws and rites it promulgates, but then you have the audacity to accuse others of "not needing the Church"?
Ridiculous. 

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Hah! That's rich. R&R will happily ignore and reject everything the Church says or does, condemn it, deride it, say it's full of heretics, ignore all the laws and rites it promulgates, but then you have the audacity to accuse others of "not needing the Church"?
Ridiculous.

THIS x1000.  R&R need "the Church" so they can put Bergoglio's picture in the vestibule and not scare away any prospective new parishioners and their contribution to collection baskets ... so they can build $50-$100 million dollar complexes.

Yes, in one sense it was a question of attempting to discern where the Church was.  We had not only competing popes, but each one set up a competing hierarchy.  And of course, ubi petrus, ibi ecclesia ("where is Peter, there is the Church") turned into "Where is Peter?  Where is the Church?"

Difference there was that we did not have any of the Popes undermining the faith itself during that time.

Do you have any imprimatured work that states what you are stating....that people were wondering if they were part of the Catholic Church or not?