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Poll

Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?

Become an R&R Traditionalist
12 (35.3%)
Become an Indult Traditionalist
6 (17.6%)
Become an NO Cath Conservative
9 (26.5%)
Become a very liberal Catholic
1 (2.9%)
Cease to practice Catholicism
6 (17.6%)

Total Members Voted: 28

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Author Topic: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?  (Read 27067 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2020, 10:14:59 AM »
Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 07, 2020, 07:53:37 PM
Ahh, and this, unfortunately, is what it amounts to. They would rather destroy the fundamental tenets of the papacy and concede that the Church can officially teach and promote error, just so they can say that a degenerate communist heretic is the pope? I don’t get it! Why? Cognitive dissonance?

I've thought about this myself.  Catholics instinctively know that membership in the Church is intrinsically tied to subjection to the Pope.  So they feel the need to cling to the Papacy.  But they can't separate clinging to the Papacy from having a concrete Pope.  There's also some "normalcy bias" at work here.

I know there are some who thoughtfully consider sedevacantism and reject it due to some actual theological concern they have, but there are some (including here on CI) who simply froth at the mouth at the mere mention of the possibility.  In those, there's clearly some psychological motivation.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #91 on: July 08, 2020, 10:21:26 AM »
Quote from: Matto on July 07, 2020, 08:02:25 PM
Because if sedevacantism is true, after sixty two years, there is no Church left on earth

Yet ...  if R&R is true, there might as well be "no Church left on earth".  If the "Church" serves mostly to lead people to hell, then we'd be better off without one.  One of the primary reasons Our Lord founded a Church was to keep souls anchored in the TRUTH, to be their rock of truth.  What purpose does the Conciliar Church server?  Is it just so we can put a picture of some guy wearing white in the vestibule?  I guess that makes some people feel better.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #92 on: July 08, 2020, 10:25:26 AM »
Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on July 07, 2020, 08:21:10 PM
So you would rather embrace the erroneous notion that the Church can officially promote and teach error? Would you rather believe that the papacy is superfluous? There is *no* dogma that states that an interregnum can’t be 60, 70, or 100 years and I never contended that there are no bishops today that have ordinary jurisdiction. Have faith my friend and *trust* God.

And there's some precedent for this.  The so-called Great Western Schism went on for NEARLY 40 YEARS.  While there was a legitimate pope the whole time, Catholics were absolutely confused about where the TRUE CHURCH was.  There was no obvious "Church to point to" during that time either.  This did not compromise the indefectibility of the Church, nor would a prolonged vacancy.  Now, a total corruption of the Magisterium and the Church's Rites of Worship, now THAT would compromise indefectibility.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #93 on: July 08, 2020, 10:42:08 AM »
Quote
Yet ...  if R&R is true, there might as well be "no Church left on earth".  If the "Church" serves mostly to lead people to hell, then we'd be better off without one. 
You could argue that that Arian heresy is an example of a prolonged R&R situation (let's not get into the weeds on the "kind" of R&R, just a general point).  You had a weak, ineffective, heretical-condoning pope, you had (according to historical accounts) 98-99% of the catholic clerics/population infected with the Arian heresy, you had self-espoused "arian-catholic priests" arguing with "I-agree-with-Arianism-but-not-your-kind" priests, and then you had "St Athanasius against the world", the only (maybe a handful of others) cleric who was truly orthodox.
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After Arianism went away (remember, Arianism had already been condemned multiple times before the time of St Athanasius, just like the tenets of Modernism have been condemned previously), there was not a re-consecration of bishops, nor a re-election of Cardinals, nor a re-election of popes, nor a re-installation of bishops into dioceses...the heresy went away and orthodoxy return when a 100% orthodox pope was elected (who also censured Pope Honorius).  You can easily argue that 98% of the clergy at the time (including the pope) led people into error because as it was said "the entire world groaned under the error of Arianism."  Very similar circuмstances to V2 and indefectibility didn't apply.
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Offline Argentino

Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #94 on: July 08, 2020, 11:26:00 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 08, 2020, 10:25:26 AM
And there's some precedent for this.  The so-called Great Western Schism went on for NEARLY 40 YEARS.  While there was a legitimate pope the whole time, Catholics were absolutely confused about where the TRUE CHURCH was.  There was no obvious "Church to point to" during that time either.  This did not compromise the indefectibility of the Church, nor would a prolonged vacancy.  Now, a total corruption of the Magisterium and the Church's Rites of Worship, now THAT would compromise indefectibility.

During that time, it was not a question of where the true Church was any more than it was when the Roman See was vacant.
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