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Poll

Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?

Become an R&R Traditionalist
12 (35.3%)
Become an Indult Traditionalist
6 (17.6%)
Become an NO Cath Conservative
9 (26.5%)
Become a very liberal Catholic
1 (2.9%)
Cease to practice Catholicism
6 (17.6%)

Total Members Voted: 28

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Author Topic: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?  (Read 27110 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2020, 05:20:37 PM »
Quote from: forlorn on July 07, 2020, 05:14:22 PM
You don't just owe submission to dogma, believe it or not. You still owe lesser degrees of religious submission to the fallible teachings of the Church, and you owe submissions to the laws and disciplines of the Church. We've been through this before. SeanJohnson can't just veto a change to fasting law and declare that anyone who follows the new law is a sinner.

Whoever said you only owe submission to the pronouncements of the EM??

I posted an article which you ignored (which makes this thread predictably tedious) that clearly distinguished the three levels of teaching, concluding in the obligatory assent to the EM and OUM, but not necessarily the AM.

Either you are not paying attention, or you are attempting to mischaracterize my (ie., the Church’s) position, which makes continuing with you pointless.
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2020, 05:24:18 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 07, 2020, 05:07:54 PM
Take a step back and have a look at what you're saying.  Based on your emphasis on strict infallibility, it's theoretically possible for 99% of the Magisterium (the fallible part) to be a total cesspool of error and harmful and leading souls to hell.

If you think that's compatible with Our Lord's promise that the Holy Spirit would guide the Church, then I'm not sure what religion you actually belong to, but it's not the Catholic one.

If 99% of the Magisterium can't be complete nonsense, then how much if it can be:  50%, 10%?

YOU render the NON-INFALLIBLE Magisterium absolutely pointless.  It's nothing more than the private opining of the man who happens to have the Papacy as his day job.  Pope by day, private doctor by night.  In fact, private theologian for 99.9999999% of his papacy and teacher of the Church for the rest of the time, when he happens (if he happens) to make a solemn definition.

In other words, according to this logic, in the days of the Arian crisis, you would have become Arian (ie., since it is allegedly it incompatible with indefectibility for 99% of the hierarchy to defect).
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Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2020, 05:30:19 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 07, 2020, 05:24:18 PM

In other words, according to this logic, in the days of the Arian crisis, you would have become Arian (ie., since it is allegedly it incompatible with indefectibility for 99% of the hierarchy to defect).

No. Is this your logic?

There is no Magisterium without the pope. He is referring, I believe, to what you call "merely authentic Magisterium" of the pope.
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2020, 05:44:06 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on July 07, 2020, 05:24:18 PM
In other words, according to this logic, in the days of the Arian crisis, you would have become Arian (ie., since it is allegedly it incompatible with indefectibility for 99% of the hierarchy to defect).

Huh?  When exactly has Arianism been taught by the Magisterium, merely authentic or otherwise?
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Sedevacantists:if you were convinced sede-ism was wrong, what would you do next?
« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2020, 06:44:26 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 07, 2020, 05:44:06 PM
Huh?  When exactly has Arianism been taught by the Magisterium, merely authentic or otherwise?
When Pope Liberius signed a semi-Arian formulation (yeah, yeah, Daly disputes it, blah, blah...).
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