Quote from: Argentino on Sun Jul 26 2020 04:59:53 GMT+0530 (India Standard Time)
No response to my question?
A dogmatic fact is one declared as such by Church Authority. Theologians commonly give the example of a Papal Election or an EcuŠ¼enical Council as being a dogmatic fact. Thus, the election of Pope Pius IX as the lawful Pope of the Catholic Church, or that Vatican I was a legitimate EcuŠ¼enical Council, would be classified as dogmatic facts.
In order for a sedevacantist to argue the alleged non-Papacy of recent Popes was a dogmatic fact, he or she would need to show a dogmatic declaration by a Church Council to that effect. But no such Council exists.
There are those who argue (like Fr. Connell in 1965) that the Papacy of Pope Paul VI (and thus of Pope John XXIII also) were dogmatic facts. The reason they adduce for this was that those Papal elections were universally accepted.
Quote from: 2Vermont Proved by whom? You?
For the purposes of the thread, proved to one's satisfaction as a sedevacantist. The question is asking whether one is a moderate sedevacantist or dogmatic sedevacantist as defined earlier.
Quote from: Struthio One would have to be completely detached from reality to claim that there is a dogma saying that all who don't hold to the sedevacantist position are condemned. There simply is none.
Ibranyi is up there. He considers virtually the entire world to be heretics and has anathematized a hundred Popes as heretics as last count. Ibranyi would qualify as a dogmatic sedevacantist for the poll.
Quote I didn't vote either.
The question is basically asking whether one considers SVism (1) a dogma or (2) an opinion. An opinion can be subject to further revision in light of new facts as they emerge. A dogma is not. So that's the reason for the question. The question of how something becomes dogma or even dogmatic fact (it obviously depends on some Church Authority) would be the next question to a sedevacantist who claimed sedevacantism was dogma.
Quote from: Ladislaus I consider a 62-year period of sedevacante to be problematic, but not theologically impossible.
New thread for this.
Poll
