.

The faith is our most precious possession.  

All the material wealth of the world is but nothing compared to the
Faith of Catholics.  

But how many of us would prefer money, power or fame to the
inestimable gift of the true Faith?  

.
.
.

And after all that, possession of the Faith is only good for this
temporal life on earth.  For the moment you die, the faith becomes
unnecessary.  It's one of the things you effectively leave behind,
one of those things about which we say, "you can't take it with
you."  This is very mysterious.  But it makes sense when you
realize that upon your death, you face your particular judgment,
and at that point, you don't need to believe what you can't see,
because then you will be looking at it.  It will no longer be a
matter of faith, but a matter of stark reality.  

Someone once complained to Padre Pio that his friend didn't
believe in hell.  He was having a hard time trying to convince his
friend that hell exists, and was seeking Padre Pio's advice on what
to do or what to say.  Padre Pio told him, "So, your friend doesn't
believe in hell, does he?  Well, you can tell him that that's okay,
because he will believe in it very well, the very moment that he
goes there."

Such a one could be someone who never had the faith, or he
could be someone who has lost the faith.  But of the two, it
would seem that the latter would suffer more in hell because he
will endure the additional torment of knowing that he had once
had the faith and he made no effort, or at least insufficient
effort, to keep it intact and to protect it, for it was his most
precious possession.  And now, he is going to spend eternity
without the reward that comes to those who keep the faith here
on earth.
 

.

Dear John,

Have you noticed that sedes cannot enter any discussion of the
importance of the Faith without making primary focus on the
validity of the current occupant of the office?  

You're going to do what you're going to do, I know.  

How can you evangelize with the prominent topic of your
discontent -- who is going to be attracted to that?  

I have a sede friend who asks me "But where is the Church?"
When I tell him, "You can come to our catechism class," he
scoffs and fumes.  Sedes are past maters at scoffing and
fuming.  Do you think that is attractive?  

When St. Francis Xavier converted millions of Asians in his
travels, he didn't even know who the current pope was.  Nor
was that important to him or his converts.  What we have is
the doctrines of the Faith, and that's what we need to know,
and that is what we need to share.  

The most important thing for good Catholics, in this time of
conspicuous apostasy, is to remain unconditionally loyal to
the Faith of our Fathers, and to unconditionally love the
Church.  For as there is no salvation outside the Church, so
too, our loyalty and fealty to God demands that we brook no
restraint in our love for his One, True Church.

Does following it's leader, "pope" Francis "brook restraint in our love for God's One, True Church"?

When did I say we should "follow pope Francis" in his obvious
defection from what is right, proper and holy?  If your father
comes home drunk do you proclaim to the world that he is
therefore no longer you father?  I would hope you don't "follow
his example" and go out yourself and get DRUNK TOO!


More:  

What is the basis for an unconditional loyalty to the Faith and
an unconditional love for the Church?  It is a good knowledge
of the Faith, a thorough testing of heresies and steadfast
adherence to the principles handed down to us from the
Apostles, that is, by way of God's revelation.  

Where does our Faith come from?  It comes from the
Oecuмenical Councils, with the popes at the head of the Church,
and from the dogmatic definitions they have given as well,
outside of the Councils.  That should be our focus.  

We really need to abstain from all this bickering about the
current pope, who is nothing short of an embarrassment to the
Faith of Catholics.  It is not our place to pass judgment on the
pope -- it never has been and it never will be.  This is our part
in the current chastisement, and it is this message that listeners
will sympathize with, not fuming discord and contention about
how terrible it is.  Because everyone knows it's terrible!  

This penchant for an inordinate preoccupation with complaining
about the current pope serves no purpose but to make yourself
miserable and to spread the misery.  

This thread is about the enormous difficulty that anyone faces
when he falls away from the Faith, for returning to it becomes
well-nigh impossible.  Therefore, we must hold on to the true
Faith in its essence, and practice our faith with JOY.  This is not
an easy task, but since we are given to live in this age, it is
just this that we are assigned to do.  

I'm not just saying this because I think I have it all worked out,
but because I am struggling with it myself.  We have all been
called to this task because we are alive today, and this is when
it's happening.  We are to honor and respect the pope, but we
cannot follow him in his errors -- that's why we need to know
what our Faith teaches.  

Vatican II was an aberration.  The entire thing is not worth
paying any attention to, but rather we have 20 good Councils
that preceded it that we must go by.  In God's good time, the
unclean spirit of Vat.II will be exposed, and a lot of exposure
has already ocurred, only not from the Chair of Peter!  

I share in your concern.  By human means, the prospect of
Francis converting and becoming a good pope is not even
imaginable!  But is that what we should be telling people who
are inquisitive and want to enter the True Church?  

I don't know.  What do you think?  Have you tried that?  Do
you have any converts or potential converts who are
interested in that message?  

Vatican II is indeed a NEW RELIGION that is OUTSIDE THE
CHURCH.  Yes!  The unclean spirit of Vat.II is the Grand
Sewer of all heresies, the snake-pit of error!  

Pope St. Pius X described Modernism as a “congeries of all heresies,” by which he meant that the heresy is so radical and pregnant of falsity, that it effectually denies all supernatural truth, attacks all defined dogmas, and gathers unto itself every notion and ideology which are opposed to the Faith. (The connotation of the English word, “congeries,” is of a nest of snakes.)  In a different way, the same thing may be said of Liberalism, for this aberration so inverts revealed truth, that it subordinates God to man. We are not surprised, therefore, that the visage of Christ Himself has been blasphemously altered at the hands of those who have distorted His teaching.  [We are called to attempt to remember] the image of our Beloved Savior as it is found in the Gospels, and as the Church has imparted it to her children through the centuries, and a study of some of His parables as they relate to the Doctrine of Exclusive Salvation.  

When Our Lady appeared to the shepherd children 96 years ago,
she showed them hell.  What we have had since Vat.II is the
Modernists in the Vatican and episcopal chancery offices worldwide
leading souls directly there -- to HELL.  

It is my intention to put down here a few ideas that can perhaps
help us to see the terror and peril of falling away from the Faith of
Catholics by not resisting the Modernist heresies.  

I hope we can make it a productive discussion, based on Scripture
and defined dogmas, and not just rabble-rouse over validity of
Orders and episcopal consecrations, and reverse thinking over the
untoward actions of recent popes.  



What does Scripture say about apostasy?  

Can you find some quotes to share with everyone?  

Is that too much to ask?



Let's please try to stay on topic.  There are plenty of other threads
that do otherwise.  

.


You really ought to learn how to use the Quote
Feature on CI, John, then everyone could keep
track of your incessant ramblings.

You've called me a liar, which is calumny.  You have accused
me falsely of leading people into the Vat.II 'church'.  You
demand to know what CMRI chapels I have been to when it's
none of your business, and you keep doing exactly what I
figured you'd do, harp and moan about how the pope isn't
the pope and the bishops aren't the bishops and the priests
aren't the priests.  And the truth is something you can't
stand so you complain about my use of the words that aptly
describe what you're doing:  scoffing and fuming.  That's your
favorite pastime, apparently.  


Woops.  I'm not supposed to notice that!   :tv-disturbed: :scared2:


You ought to look in the mirror and see:  that's all you have
to say.  

This thread is about where it says in Scripture that someone
who has apostatized from the Faith will have a really hard
time coming back from his error, and lo, all you have to
offer is starting to look like evidence that's the truth,
because you are finding it impossible to talk about this topic.  
Maybe you don't like to read the Bible.  Okay, then you're
making a mistake when you post in a thread that's all about
Scripture!  That's YOUR mistake, not mine.  

You keep trying to lash out with false accusations that have
nothing to do with the topic.  Why don't you take your wild
nonsense to another thread, where it's all over the place
already, or is it that you just can't stand to see these things
being pointed out because they hit too close to home?  
Or is it just more fun to be a troll?   :gandalf:

.

You forgot -- again -- what this thread is for!
I'm sorry to have to see that happen.  



It must be very hard for you to keep your mind on the
topic.  It's sad to see that happening to you.  It must be
very unpleasant.  You have my deepest sympathy, "Joan."

And in some of your abundant spare time, try working on
how to use the Quote feature.  Okay?

And do try to remember the topic:  This thread is for
Scripture that touches on how difficult it is for someone
who has fallen away, to then return to the true Faith,
and when they fail to convert again, what are the dire
consequences that await them?



Here is one:

"Therefore behold I send to you prophets, and wise men,
and scribes : and some of them you will put to death and
crucify, and some you will scourge in your ѕуηαgσgυєs,
and persecute from city to city...   Jerusalem, Jerusalem,
thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are
sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered together
thy children, as the hen doth gather her chickens under
her wings, and thou wouldest not?  Behold, your house
shall be left to you, desolate" (Matt. xxiii. 34.37-38).  

And another:

"And when he drew near, seeing the city, he wept over it,
saying :  If thou also hadst known, and that in this thy
day, the things that are to thy peace;  but now they are
hidden from thine eyes.  For the days shall come upon thee :
and thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and
compass thee round, and straiten thee on every side.  And
beat thee flat to the ground, and thy children who are in
thee : and they shall not leave in thee a stone upon a
stone ;  because thou hast not known the time of thy
visitation" (Lk. xix. 41-44).