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Author Topic: Sedevacantist Ecclesiology and Protestant Ecclesiology are IDENTICAL  (Read 11498 times)

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Re: Sedevacantist Ecclesiology and Protestant Ecclesiology are IDENTICAL
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2022, 11:39:00 AM »

And that's without even wandering into the hole of what "faith faileth not" means.

DR

Maybe we should read some Scripture commentaries by the Fathers and Doctors rather than try and figure it out for ourselves?

Cornelius a Lapide on Luke 22:31
Quote
Another and a certain privilege was common to Peter with all his successors, that he and all the other bishops of Rome (for Peter, as Christ willed, founded and confirmed the Pontifical Church at Rome), should never openly fall from this faith, so as to teach the Church heresy, or any error, contrary to the faith. So S. Leo (serm. xxii.), on Natalis of SS. Peter and Paul; S. Cyprian (Lib. i. ep. 3), to Cornelius; Lucius I., Felix I., Agatho, Nicolas I., Leo IX., Innocent III., Bernard and others, whom Bellarmine cites and follows (Lib. i. de Pontif. Roman). For it was necessary that Christ, by His most wise providence, should provide for His Church, which is ever being sifted and tempted by the devil, and that not only in the time of Peter, but at all times henceforth, even to the end of the world, an oracle of the true faith which she might consult in every doubt, and by which she might be taught and confirmed in the faith, otherwise the Church might err in faith, quod absit! For she is, as S. Paul said to Timothy, “the pillar and ground of the truth” (1 Tim. 3:15). This oracle of the Church then is Peter, and all successive bishops of Rome. This promise made to Peter and his successors, most especially applies to the time when Peter, as the successor of Christ, began to be the head of the Church, that is, after the death of Christ.
Note how it says nothing about infallibility or ex cathedra, but his teaching in general.

Re: Sedevacantist Ecclesiology and Protestant Ecclesiology are IDENTICAL
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2022, 12:52:11 PM »
Maybe we should read some Scripture commentaries by the Fathers and Doctors rather than try and figure it out for ourselves?

Cornelius a Lapide on Luke 22:31Note how it says nothing about infallibility or ex cathedra, but his teaching in general.

Yessiree. The Church cannot teach major error or heresy in Her authentic magisterium, but she also cannot defect in the way that some Sedevacantists imply; especially Totalists.

As Papa Pio NoNo said about the heretical & schismatic Old Catholics:

“Incredibly, they boldly affirm that the Roman Pontiff and all the bishops, the priests and the people conjoined with him in the unity of faith and communion fell into heresy when they approved and professed the definitions of the Ecuмenical Vatican Council. Therefore they deny also the indefectibility of the Church and blasphemously declare that it has perished throughout the world and that its visible Head and the bishops have erred. They assert the necessity of restoring a legitimate episcopacy in the person of their pseudo-bishop, who has entered not by the gate but from elsewhere like a thief or robber and calls the damnation of Christ upon his head.”

Totalists Sedevacantist ecclesiology is simply not tenable. In fact, it’s impossible.

The only way to reconcile Traditional ecclesiology with indefectibility in teaching is by adhering to a variation of Msgr. Lefebvre’s Conciliar church/eclipse hypothesis like Fr. Chazal’s Sedeimpoundism or Msgr. Des Lauriers’ Cassiciacuм Thesis.

Objectively considered, Recognize and Resist outside of the above paradigm and Totalist Sedevacantism are both worthy of being condemned as heretical comedy bordering on the insane.


Re: Sedevacantist Ecclesiology and Protestant Ecclesiology are IDENTICAL
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2022, 02:10:43 PM »
Totalists Sedevacantist ecclesiology is simply not tenable. In fact, it’s impossible.

The only way to reconcile Traditional ecclesiology with indefectibility in teaching is by adhering to a variation of Msgr. Lefebvre’s Conciliar church/eclipse hypothesis like Fr. Chazal’s Sedeimpoundism or Msgr. Des Lauriers’ Cassiciacuм Thesis.

Objectively considered, Recognize and Resist outside of the above paradigm and Totalist Sedevacantism are both worthy of being condemned as heretical comedy bordering on the insane.
Completely agree. Hence why I hold to the Cassiciacuм thesis.

Re: Sedevacantist Ecclesiology and Protestant Ecclesiology are IDENTICAL
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2022, 03:09:04 PM »

Lots of rhetorical slashing and thrashing.

I hope someone will mention some Scripture here.

No, it wasn't.  Catholic teaching is based on Scripture AND Sacred Tradition.  

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Re: Sedevacantist Ecclesiology and Protestant Ecclesiology are IDENTICAL
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2022, 04:46:13 PM »
Yessiree. The Church cannot teach major error or heresy in Her authentic magisterium, but she also cannot defect in the way that some Sedevacantists imply; especially Totalists.

As Papa Pio NoNo said about the heretical & schismatic Old Catholics:

“Incredibly, they boldly affirm that the Roman Pontiff and all the bishops, the priests and the people conjoined with him in the unity of faith and communion fell into heresy when they approved and professed the definitions of the Ecuмenical Vatican Council. Therefore they deny also the indefectibility of the Church and blasphemously declare that it has perished throughout the world and that its visible Head and the bishops have erred. They assert the necessity of restoring a legitimate episcopacy in the person of their pseudo-bishop, who has entered not by the gate but from elsewhere like a thief or robber and calls the damnation of Christ upon his head.”

Totalists Sedevacantist ecclesiology is simply not tenable. In fact, it’s impossible.

The only way to reconcile Traditional ecclesiology with indefectibility in teaching is by adhering to a variation of Msgr. Lefebvre’s Conciliar church/eclipse hypothesis like Fr. Chazal’s Sedeimpoundism or Msgr. Des Lauriers’ Cassiciacuм Thesis.

Objectively considered, Recognize and Resist outside of the above paradigm and Totalist Sedevacantism are both worthy of being condemned as heretical comedy bordering on the insane.


Vatican II and the "Conciliar revolution" should have taught us that the Emperor has no clothes. 

Yet the Emperor sans his clothes is still the Emperor of an Empire.