Author Topic: Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith (Read 17166 times)

SJB · « **Reply #50 on:** October 09, 2009, 07:00:03 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Quote from: SJB
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Or unless it is clear they have incurred a sentence of excommunication (including latae sententiae with such notoriety that it is not concealed and cannot be excused in law. (Pope Eugene IV, ex cathedra)

This is wrong, I believe. Excommunication deprives one of the spiritual goods of the Church...it does not necessarily cause a loss of membership in the Church.

Minor excommunication is what you are thinking of, not that which is called latae sententiae, that is excommunication promulgated by the law for the profession of heresy or any false religion.

Go to this thread about it where Caminus called me an idiot.

There are many latae sententiae excommunications. Profession of heresy is only one of them.

Caminus · « **Reply #51 on:** October 09, 2009, 12:20:52 PM »

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Materialism and worldliness have always been there. Heresy and error has always been there.

All of which differ in degree, kind and extent. Or are you trying to argue that we are morally obligated to abandon traditional catholicism?

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Material separation from the normal structure of the Church?

Yes. Do you understand the notion that an accidental effect can fall outside of one's formal intention?

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Do you see the problem, Caminus?

For the novus ordo bishops, yes. For us? No.

Caminus · « **Reply #52 on:** October 09, 2009, 01:33:46 PM »

Can you not see the difference first of all between the worldiness of today, that is consorting with neo-paganism and the worldiness of a bishop at another time in history? The flavor is certainly of a different kind. Can you not see the difference between a worldly bishop in itself, contained as it were to his own person, and the worldly and material interpretation and attitude given to the faith and religion itself? And this, not by one or two, but by entire conferences of bishops who approach the Church, not as something supernatural, holy and set apart, but rather merely a political organization? This one vice, this rapproachment with the world, is so abhorrent, so offensive, so devastating to the Church that it alone could account for the most of the damage done since Vatican II. The recovery of the notion of sacredness and reverence and fear will go along way in "re-orienting" the strange policies of this pernicious council.

SJB · « **Reply #53 on:** October 09, 2009, 02:33:20 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

Can you not see the difference first of all between the worldiness of today, that is consorting with neo-paganism and the worldiness of a bishop at another time in history?

Ah, but "consorting with neo-paganism" is NOT worldliness.

Matthew · « **Reply #54 on:** October 09, 2009, 02:36:31 PM »

Quote from: SJB

Quote from: Catholic Martyr
Quote from: SJB
Quote
Or unless it is clear they have incurred a sentence of excommunication (including latae sententiae with such notoriety that it is not concealed and cannot be excused in law. (Pope Eugene IV, ex cathedra)

This is wrong, I believe. Excommunication deprives one of the spiritual goods of the Church...it does not necessarily cause a loss of membership in the Church.

Minor excommunication is what you are thinking of, not that which is called latae sententiae, that is excommunication promulgated by the law for the profession of heresy or any false religion.

Go to this thread about it where Caminus called me an idiot.

There are many latae sententiae excommunications. Profession of heresy is only one of them.

:heretic:

If we can just assume various people are excommunicated, and treat them accordingly, what is the point of having Church authorities at all? We're all our own Vatican.

A common criticism of sedevacantism -- every man becomes his own pope. I don't see any problem with that criticism at the moment.