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Author Topic: Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith  (Read 17178 times)

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Offline SJB

Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2009, 05:40:47 AM »
Quote from: Caminus
Quote from: Catholic Martyr
Excuse me, but I quote the same words that were ratified by Pope Eugene IV, and they are wrong?  Get real.


I have never seen anyone so affected by such a malignant spiritual pride.


There a reason why you see that so clearly. :)

Offline SJB

Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2009, 05:48:42 AM »
Quote from: Caminus
Quote from: SJB
Quote from: Caminus
Ah, we can't avoid evil, or determine where catholic tradition is without making illicit judgments or rendering our opinions binding on others.  I'll be waiting for an "authority" on that one.


You can and must avoid heretics. See St. Paul on this one.

As far as I can tell, you shouldn't be avoiding other Catholics because of doctrinal matters less than heresy. You do not shun excommunicants unless they are excommunicated by name and "to be avoided".



Heresy is part of the equation here because certain notions are in fact proximate to heresy and lead to heresy, as well as other factors that have destroyed our supernatural religion.  Some certain doctrinal matters may not be heresy strictly speaking, but do have effects which destroy nonetheless and consequently should be avoided.  Add to this a certain materialism and worldiness that isn't limited to a certain person or group of people and we have a terrible problem.  As was said before, our material separation from the normal structure of the Church is accidental and beside our formal intention of adhering to tradition.  This is, I believe, the proper attitude to have.  


Materialism and worldliness have always been there. Heresy and error has always been there.

Material separation from the normal structure of the Church?

Here's a definition of the Church Militant:

Quote from: St. Robert Bellarmine
"The assembly of men bound together by the profession of the Christian faith, and by the communion of the same Sacraments, under the government of their legitimate shepherds, and especially that of the one Vicar of Christ on earth, the Roman Pontiff."

(De Ecclesia militante [On the Church Militant], bk. 3, ch. 2, par. 9) (Pragae, 1721, II, p. 65a)


Do you see the problem, Caminus?


Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2009, 03:43:22 PM »
I see.  With what guile and deviousness you engage an opponent.  Who is your master?  Is it Cekada?  

Offline CM

Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2009, 04:17:35 PM »
Quote from: SJB
Quote
Or unless it is clear they have incurred a sentence of excommunication (including latae sententiae with such notoriety that it is not concealed and cannot be excused in law.  (Pope Eugene IV, ex cathedra)


This is wrong, I believe. Excommunication deprives one of the spiritual goods of the Church...it does not necessarily cause a loss of membership in the Church.


Minor excommunication is what you are thinking of, not that which is called latae sententiae, that is excommunication promulgated by the law for the profession of heresy or any false religion.

Go to this thread about it where Caminus called me an idiot.

Offline SJB

Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2009, 04:18:09 PM »
Quote from: Caminus
I see.  With what guile and deviousness you engage an opponent.  Who is your master?  Is it Cekada?  


Why don't you point out this "guile and deviousness"? All I did was quote St. Robert Bellarmine.