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Author Topic: Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith  (Read 17151 times)

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Offline gladius_veritatis

  • Supporter
Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2009, 12:31:15 PM »
Quote from: Caminus
It's a general description since this is a crisis primarily of bishops in one way or another.  


Which, of necessity, must have some kind of specific, practical application - or it is so much horse pucky.

Offline SJB

Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2009, 12:42:19 PM »
Quote from: Caminus
Quote from: SJB
Quote from: gladius_veritatis
Quote from: Caminus
But traditional catholicism does involve a judgment, that is where the faith is preserved in all its splendor and implications.  This is a positive judgment of which we are all bound to make.  The "resistance" that follows is accidental for in actuality, it is the bishops who are the rebels, not us...


Who has told you that the bishops are the rebels?  How is the average man in the pew to know he is "bound to make" such a judgment?  It is at variance with everything his parents and the nuns taught him, when there were nuns to teach.


Because we all make personal judgments based on the externals. Yes, we are to refrain from make rash judgments, but we must and we do make these types of judgments EVERY DAY.

Who is Caminus to make a judgment on a Catholic Bishop? Is he making a legal declaration? May he avoid these Bishops based on that non-binding opinion?



The short answer is that I make no definitive judgments regarding persons and you should do likewise lest you fall into error.


Then you have no business avoiding these people.

Anyway, Caminus, YOU judge people almost every day...based purely on externals...and without making any legal declarations.



Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2009, 12:53:12 PM »
Quote from: SJB
Quote from: Caminus
Quote from: SJB
Quote from: gladius_veritatis
Quote from: Caminus
But traditional catholicism does involve a judgment, that is where the faith is preserved in all its splendor and implications.  This is a positive judgment of which we are all bound to make.  The "resistance" that follows is accidental for in actuality, it is the bishops who are the rebels, not us...


Who has told you that the bishops are the rebels?  How is the average man in the pew to know he is "bound to make" such a judgment?  It is at variance with everything his parents and the nuns taught him, when there were nuns to teach.


Because we all make personal judgments based on the externals. Yes, we are to refrain from make rash judgments, but we must and we do make these types of judgments EVERY DAY.

Who is Caminus to make a judgment on a Catholic Bishop? Is he making a legal declaration? May he avoid these Bishops based on that non-binding opinion?



The short answer is that I make no definitive judgments regarding persons and you should do likewise lest you fall into error.


Then you have no business avoiding these people.

Anyway, Caminus, YOU judge people almost every day...based purely on externals...and without making any legal declarations.



Ah, we can't avoid evil, or determine where catholic tradition is without making illicit judgments or rendering our opinions binding on others.  I'll be waiting for an "authority" on that one.  Look, if you can provide compelling and sound evidence for your position, I would accept it as legitimate.  Furthmore, I have always admitted the possibility of holding a certain form of this opinion privately and merely as less probable.  The thing that I take issue with is what I refer to as "dogmatic sedevacantism."  This is clearly outside certain boundaries, moral, theological and canonical.  Labor not to establish how this opinion is the only "true catholic opinion."  Work on your own interior life, work to restore this tradition, and the conversion of our catholic neighbors who find themselves in some kind of error.  The entire perspective of the dogmatic SV is simply not proportionate, nor is it spiritually healthy.  No one is spared in this trial and you are liable to error just like anyone else.  

Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2009, 12:55:42 PM »
You have never addressed my observation that to unite under this opinion is an error as it is outside of the Catholic faith.  Never has anyone addressed this problem.  

Offline gladius_veritatis

  • Supporter
Sedevacantism vs. the Catholic Faith
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2009, 01:16:44 PM »
Quote from: Caminus
Ah, we can't avoid evil, or determine where catholic tradition is without making illicit judgments or rendering our opinions binding on others.


Are you trying to bind others to your opinion about the nature of the judgments we are making? JK :wink: