Author Topic: Sedevacantism not found in prophecy  (Read 3450 times)

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Offline andysloan

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Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
« on: March 28, 2014, 10:13:13 PM »
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  • To the sedevacantist brothers and sisters.


    God, of Whom it is written:


    Wisdom 19:20


    "For in all things thou didst magnify thy people, O Lord, and didst honour them, and didst not despise them, but didst assist them at all times, and in every place."



    ...has given to His Church a vast number of revelations and prophecies.


    I make no claim to be a high authority, yet I have studied a great number of these and I have never seen any prophecy advising of a period of invalid popes.


    The only prophecy touching this is from the great St Francis of Assisi, who speaks of one invalidly elected pope (who in all likelihood will be the false prophet of Apocalypse )


    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2748949/posts


    God has helped his people all the way through the history of the church and surely it is reasonable to suppose that such an extraordinary situation would have been forewarned. Thus can anyone find such a revelation?


       

    Psalms 59:6


    "Thou hast given a warning to them that fear thee: that they may flee from before the bow: That thy beloved may be delivered."


    Offline SoldierOfChrist

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #1 on: March 28, 2014, 10:39:27 PM »
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  • I'm not a sedevacantist.  I don't know what to believe as far as the post-conciliar popes.  That being said, if John XXIII was an anti-pope and Gregory XVII was the true pope, then that would take him right up until 1989.  No other pope would have been able to be elected in the interim, so that would make Paul VI, JPI, and JPII, antipopes.  Given that scenario, it could be the case that Benedict XVI was a true pope.  I find it doubtful that Francis is a true pope, given his apparently heretical statements.  I think that scenario could easily fit into St. Francis' prophecy.  Not sure how well it would fit into St. Malachy's prophecy.


    Offline Conspiracy_Factist

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #2 on: March 28, 2014, 10:55:11 PM »
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  • I'm still puzzled how not all true catholics have  taken the sedevacanist position

    was this prophecy a fraud yes or no?

    Our Lady of La Salette, Sept. 19, 1846:
    “Rome will lose the
    Faith and become the seat of
    the Anti-Christ... the Church
    will be in eclipse

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #3 on: March 28, 2014, 11:08:22 PM »
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  • Was there a prophecy for Arianism?

    Mohammedanism?

    Manicheanism?

    Jansenism?

    The Great Western "Schism"?

    Lutheranism?

    Calvinism?

    Gallicism?

    Monophysitism?

    Monothelitism?

    I'm not sure what your point is, Andy.



    More Catholic Discussion: http://thetradforum.com

    Offline clare

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #4 on: March 29, 2014, 05:12:42 AM »
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  • Quote from: gooch
    I'm still puzzled how not all true catholics have  taken the sedevacanist position

    was this prophecy a fraud yes or no?

    Our Lady of La Salette, Sept. 19, 1846:
    “Rome will lose the
    Faith and become the seat of
    the Anti-Christ... the Church
    will be in eclipse


    Well, I guess the seat of the Anti-Christ isn't vacant.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #5 on: March 29, 2014, 06:06:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: andysloan
    The only prophecy touching this is from the great St Francis of Assisi, who speaks of one invalidly elected pope ,,.


    So it's NOT found in prophecy?

    Offline andysloan

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #6 on: March 29, 2014, 07:11:25 AM »
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  • To Ladislaus:


    The prophecy from St Francis refers to ONE person; not a string of anti-popes.


    God bless!

    Offline andysloan

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #7 on: March 29, 2014, 07:26:57 AM »
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  • To Mithrandylan


    We know from Scripture of heresies and heretical sects:



    2 Peter 2:1


    "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction."



    Romans 16:17


    Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them.



    But it seems an aberration that a string of anti-popes finds no mention in Scripture or any revelations/prophecies.



    In fact, some of the heresies you listed are referenced in the Mystical City of God:



    "Ah, woe is me (satan), what torment does this mistake cause me! When I tempted Him in the desert, the only result was to afford him a chance to leave the example of this victory, by following which men can overcome so much the more easily. My persecutions only brought out more clearly his doctrine of humility and patience. In persuading Judas to betray Him, and the Jews subject Him to the deadly torture of the Cross, I merely hastened my ruin and the salvation of men, while the doctrine I sought to blot out was only the more firmly implanted. How could One who is God humiliate Himself to such an extent? How could He bear so much from men who are evil? How could I myself have been led to assist so much in making this salvation so copious and wonderful? O how godlike is the power of that Man which could torment and weaken me so? And can this Woman, his Mother and my Enemy, be so mighty and invincible in her opposition to me? New is such power in a mere creature, and no doubt She derived it from the divine Word, whom She clothed in human flesh. Through this Woman the Almighty has ceaselessly waged war against me, though I have hated Her in my pride from the moment I recognized Her in her image or heavenly sign. But if my proud indignation is not to be assuaged, I benefit nothing by my perpetual war against this Redeemer, against his Mother and against men. Now then, ye demons who follow me, now is the time to give way to our wrath against God. Come all of ye to take counsel what we are to do; for I desire to hear your opinions.”

    Some of the principal demons gave their answers to this dreadful proposal, encouraging Lucifer by suggesting diverse schemes for hindering the fruit of the Redemption among men. They all agreed that it was not possible to injure the person of Christ, to diminish the immense value of his merits, to destroy the efficacy of the Sacraments, to falsify or abolish the doctrine which Christ had preached; yet they resolved that, in accordance with the new order of assistance and favor established by God for the salvation of men, they should now seek new ways of hindering and preventing the work of God by much the greater deceits and temptations. In reference to these plans some of the astute and malicious demons said “It is true, that men now have at their disposal a new and very powerful doctrine and law, new and efficacious Sacraments, a new Model and Instructor of virtues, a powerful Intercessor and Advocate in this Woman; yet the natural inclinations and passions of the flesh remain just the same, and the sensible and delectable creatures have not changed their nature. Let us then, making use of this situation with increased astuteness, foil as far as in us lies the effects of what this Godman has wrought for men. Let us begin strenuous warfare against mankind by suggesting new attractions, exciting them to follow their passions in forgetfulness of all else. Thus men, being taken up with these dangerous things, cannot attend to the contrary.”

    Acting upon this counsel they redistributed the spheres of work among themselves, in order that each squadron of demons might, with a specialized astuteness tempt men to different vices. They resolved to continue to propagate idolatry in the world, so that men might not come to the knowledge of the true God and the Redemption. Wherever idolatry would fail, they concluded to establish sects and heresies, for which they would select the most perverse and depraved of the human race as leaders and teachers of error. Then and there was concocted among these malignant spirits the sect of Mahomet, the heresies of Arius, Pelagius, Nestorius, and whatever other heresies have been started in the world from the first ages of the Church until now, together with those which they have in readiness, but which it is neither necessary nor proper to mention here. Lucifer showed himself content with these infernal counsels as being opposed to divine truth and destructive of the very foundation of man’s rescue, namely divine faith. He lavished flattering praise and high offices upon those demons, who showed themselves willing and who undertook to find the impious originators of these errors."


    See Book 6: Chaper 10 - The Victory of Christ over Hell.


    http://www.ecatholic2000.com/agreda/mystical/city.shtml




    God bless!


    Offline andysloan

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #8 on: March 29, 2014, 07:38:40 AM »
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  • To Gooch:


    Apropos the warning about Rome becoming the seat of the antichrist, it is reasonable to conclude with reference to Sacred Scripture that it refers to an individual person.;

       

    1 John 2:18


    "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh."  



    It would be in character with the messages of heaven which are routinely admonitionary, to advise of such an occurrence.


    We do have a warning on the New Mass through Marie Julie Jahenny and Sr Jeanne Le Royer; but I have never seen even a hint about a succession of invalid popes. Has anyone else?




    God bless!

    Online 2Vermont

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #9 on: March 29, 2014, 07:42:02 AM »
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  • "But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers, who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction."


     
    Huh. Sounds like the perfect verse prophesying lying teachers/anti-popes and the Vatican II sect of perdition.
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline andysloan

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #10 on: March 29, 2014, 07:50:20 AM »
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  • To 2Vermont:



    For me, study of the character of heavenly revelations suggests we would be warned of a situation of the highest gravity such as a line of false popes.


    For example, if you study the revelation to Marie-Julie Jahenny, we are informed of the new mass and even safe places to live in France during the coming chastisement, yet we hear nothing about this.



    http://www.catholictradition.org/Passion/jahenny.htm


    God bless!








    Online 2Vermont

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #11 on: March 29, 2014, 07:55:40 AM »
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  • We have been warned.  You just don't see the warnings because it's not the way YOU wish to see them.

    The bible verse I posted is absolutely relevant.  You just wish to ignore it.

    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline andysloan

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #12 on: March 29, 2014, 08:08:43 AM »
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  • To 2Vermont,


    Nowhere have we been alerted of a line of anti-popes. It is out of character for heavenly revelations/prophecies not to provide particular warning on this.

    Our Lord is our Good Shepherd. Objectively, no-one can fail to identify this as a curious, even glaring omission.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #13 on: March 29, 2014, 08:54:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: andysloan
    To Ladislaus:


    The prophecy from St Francis refers to ONE person; not a string of anti-popes.


    God bless!


    Failure to mention the others doesn't mean anything.

    At the end of the day, andysloan, the absence of this in prophecy means nothing.  I don't recall anything in Catholic prophecy about a destructive Church Council either.  All it means is that God, for whatever reason, chose not to reveal this through any prophecy.  Imagine if Our Lady of Fatima had warned, "There will be a destructive Council in the pontificate of John XIII that will undermine the faith and wreak havoc on the Church."  That would have averted the effects of Vatican II and would have undermined what God willed to accomplish in allowing it ... a chastisement, a purification, a sifting of the true faithful, etc.  I do believe Our Lady probably mentioned Vatican II and the Antipopes in the Third Secret, but that has been kept hidden from us due to the disobedience of the Popes ... just as Our Lord asked the kings of France to consecrate the country to His Sacred Heart; they brought destruction on their country through their refusal.

    Offline andysloan

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    Sedevacantism not found in prophecy
    « Reply #14 on: March 29, 2014, 09:23:54 AM »
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  • To Ladislaus:


    With the greatest respect to you, it is simply absurd to state that the Prophecy of St Francis refers to anything but one particular individual:


    "At the time of this tribulation a man, not canonically elected, will be raised to the Pontificate, who, by his cunning, will endeavour to draw many into error and death. Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it under foot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days JESUS CHRIST WILL SEND THEM NOT A TRUE PASTOR, BUT A DESTROYER."



    And heaven has warned us about Vatican 2:


    Sister Jeanne le Royer (Sister of the Nativity - died 1798)

    "One day I heard that the New Constitution (Vatican 2) will appear to many other than what it really is. They will bless it as a gift from Heaven; whereas it is in fact sent form hell and permitted by God in His just wrath. It will only be by its side effects that people will be led to recognize the Dragon who wanted to destroy all and devour all. One night I saw a number of ecclesiastics. Their haughtiness and air of severity seemed to demand the respect of all. They forced the faithful to follow them. But God commanded me to oppose them saying: They no longer have the right to speak my name Jesus told me. It is against My wish that they carry out a mandate for which they are no longer worthy of."

    "I saw a great power rise up against the Church. it plundered, devastated, and threw into confusion and disorder the vine of the Lord, having it trampled underfoot by the people and holding it up to ridicule by all nations. Having vilified celibacy and oppressed the priesthood, it had the effrontery to confiscate the Church's property and to arrogate to itself the powers of the Holy Father, whose person and laws it held in contempt."

    "I had a vision; Before the Father and the Son- both seated-- a virgin of incomparable beauty, representing the Church, was kneeling. The Holy Ghost spread his shining wings over the virgin and the other two persons. The wound of our Lord seemed alive. Leaning on the Cross with one hand, He offered to His Father with the other hand the chalice which the Master held in the middle. The Father placed one hand on the cup and raised the other to bless the virgin. I noticed that the chalice was only half filled with blood, and I heard these words spoken by our Savior at the moment of presentation; I shall not be fully satisfied until I am unable to fill it right up to the brim. I understood then that the contents of the chalice represented the blood of the early martyrs, and that the vision had reference to the last persecutions of Christians, whose blood would fill the chalice thereby completing the number of martyrs predestined. For at the end of time, there will be as many martyrs as in the early Church and even more, for the persecutions will be far more violent. Then the last Judgment will no longer be delayed."

    "I see in God that a long time before the rise of the Antichrist the world will be afflicted with many bloody wars. Peoples will rise against peoples, and nations will rise against nations, sometimes allied, sometimes enemies, in their fight against the same party. Army’s will come into frightful collisions and will fill the earth with murder and carnage. These internal and foreign wars will cause enormous sacrifices, profanations, scandals, and infinite evils, because of the incursions that will be made into the Church. As well as that I see the earth will be shaken in different places by frightful earthquakes. I see the whole mountains cracking and splitting with a terrible din. Only too happy will one be if one can escape with no more than a fright; but no, I see out of the gaping mountains whirlwinds of smoke, fire, sulphur and tar, which reduce to cinders entire towns. All this and a thousand other disasters must come before the rise of the Man of Sin."

    "I saw in the Light of the Lord that the Faith and our Holy Religion would become weaker in almost every Christian Kingdom. God has permitted that they should be chastised by the wicked in order to awaken them form their apathy. And after the Justice of God has been satisfied, He will pour out an abundance of graces on His Church. And He will spread the Faith and restore discipline of the Church in those countries where it had become tepid and lax. I see in God a great power led by the Holy Ghost which will restore order through a second upheaval. I see in God a large assembly of pastors who will uphold the rights of the Church (not man) and of Her Head. They will restore the former disciplines. I, see in particular two servants of the Lord who will distinguish themselves in this glorious struggle and who, by the grace of God, will fill with ardent zeal the hearts of this illustrious assembly."

    "All false cults will be abolished; all the abuses of the Revolution (Vatican 2) will be destroyed and the altars of the true God restored. The former practices will be put into force again (preVatican 2) and our religion--at least in some respects will flourish more than ever. I see in God that the Church will enjoy a profound peace over a period which seems to be a fairly long duration. This respite will be the longest of all that will occur between the revolutions from now till General Judgment. The closer we draw to General Judgment the shorter will be the revolutions against the Church. The kind of peace that will follow each revolution will also be shorter. This is because we are approaching the End. One day the Lord said to me " A few years before the coming of My enemy, Satan will rise up false prophets who will announce Antichrist as true Messiah, and they try to destroy all our Christian beliefs. The closer we get to Antichrist the more darkness will spread over the earth and the more his satellites will increase their efforts to trap the faithful into their nets. When the Antichrist draws near a false religion (masonry-religion of man) will appear which will deny the unity of God and will oppose the Church. Errors will cause ravages as never before."

    "God has manifested to me the malice of Lucifer and the perverse and diabolical intentions of his henchmen against the Holy Church of Christ. At the command of their master these wicked men have crossed the world like the furies to prepare the way and place for the Antichrist whose reign is approaching. The storm began in France and France shall be the first theatre of its ravages after having been its cradle. The Church in council shall one day strike with anathemas to pull down and to destroy the evil principles of that criminal constitution (Vatican 2). "


    Nothing about a string of anti-popes though.


    God bless!

     

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