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Author Topic: Sedevacantism DESTROYED or?  (Read 1822 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

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Re: Sedevacantism DESTROYED or?
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2022, 10:04:05 PM »
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    then what does it matter if Sedevacantists were really Protestant anyways?
    When I started moving toward the sede position, that was one question I always posed to the die-hard Novus Ordite conservatives that was never answered. It ultimately does not matter if I'm a sedevacantist "outside of the Church" when the "Church" teaches that all men can be saved regardless of whether they're Catholic. Neither reason nor theology are with these types. :facepalm:

    I forget what video it was, but I think it was MHFM who took Michael Lofton to task about his mocking of Church teaching. That man is not a Catholic, which became apparent to me when he would constantly try and reconcile the heretical "essence-energies" doctrine with Catholic theology.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline EWPJ

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    Re: Sedevacantism DESTROYED or?
    « Reply #16 on: May 17, 2022, 10:43:52 PM »
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  • Mostly the same trash arguments against Sedevacantism that have been refuted time and again.  Funny, I challenged Michael Lofton to a debate on his show about Sedevacantism about 2 years agi because I noticed he misrepresented the position and had John Salza on one time and they completely attacked strawmen the entire show and didn't even address anything substantial and I was rather charitable about it but he still rejected it.  

    The guy has a lot of conflicting beliefs and tries to mix Catholicism with "Orthodoxy" and goes to both services if I recall correctly.
     


    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Sedevacantism DESTROYED or?
    « Reply #17 on: May 17, 2022, 11:08:16 PM »
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  •  It ultimately does not matter if I'm a sedevacantist "outside of the Church" when the "Church" teaches that all men can be saved regardless of whether they're Catholic. Neither reason nor theology are with these types. :facepalm:
    The sick thing is that Francis would not even have told Bannister to convert back to Catolicism when he was an atheist, but he certainly would have called out his rigidity as a sede. 

    Mostly the same trash arguments against Sedevacantism that have been refuted time and again.  Funny, I challenged Michael Lofton to a debate on his show about Sedevacantism about 2 years agi because I noticed he misrepresented the position and had John Salza on one time and they completely attacked strawmen the entire show and didn't even address anything substantial and I was rather charitable about it but he still rejected it. 

    The guy has a lot of conflicting beliefs and tries to mix Catholicism with "Orthodoxy" and goes to both services if I recall correctly.
     
    I really wonder how he can defend Gregory of Narek becoming a "Doctor".

    How "ecuмenical" of him.

    Seriously, it frustrates me that those who side so vehemently with Newchurch refuse to take the logic of Newchurch to its end. If a Hindu can die an "anonymous Christian" so long as he is a "good person" (by vague worldly standards, of course) and if the "Orthodox" don't need to renounce their schism, then what does it matter if Sedevacantists were really Protestant anyways?

    This kind of behavior reminds me of this quote:

    "So integrally is this doctrine [EENS] woven into the fabric of the Faith that, by sardonic irony, it is the implicit basis whereby the conciliar establishment has achieved its hold over its ensnared captives and keeps them in line. It does this while it promotes general apostasy, especially that falsity which maintains that those outside the Church can and will be saved. Moreover, those who refuse to yield up their Faith are treated as being out of the Church, and threatened with legal censures of the Church, which, let it be noticed, are nothing else but the legal application of this holy doctrine."

                                                    - Fr. James Wathen, Who Shall Ascend? Vol.I, pgs. 26-27


    Additionally, didn't Michael Lofton (who runs No Reason and Fake Theology) make a video where he tried to make an argument that the Syllabus of Errors was and is not authoritative papal teaching?

    (Seems like a blatantly heretical claim; plus he cites Cardinal Newman in making this argument, who was a liberal and voted against Vatican I's definition of Papal Infallibility)

    I found it, here it is:



    Videos on Card. Newman's liberalism:






    I absolutely agree. I once was far less charitable in my opinion towards sedevacantists, but thankfully I have grown beyond such pettiness.
    Newman is an interesting case, I think with Anglican converts they either go hard or bring Anglicanism with them. Almost all Anglicans that are serious go EO or RC. At the most it would seem like sedevacantists would have "impaired communion" or whatever the NO term is for the SSPX situation, ofc there's no money in this for Frankie and co +sedes would never cooperate with him so they just say they have 0 canonical status. It's stupid, it's never about theology or principles. I hope the Dimonds do a video on Bannister soon. 
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Sedevacantism DESTROYED or?
    « Reply #18 on: May 18, 2022, 02:32:02 PM »
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  • Since it is my birthday, I thought I would add this into the mix!  For those who do not know me, I am not dogmatic sede, I pray for all Traditionals trying to keep the faith, someday there will be only one fold and one shepherd but for now a pleasant read below: 
    Sedevacantism compiled by Myrna Migala



    The Church being as it was infiltrated by the enemy of God; back in the day when this enemy put into place one of their own as was their plan.  One of their own as defined as someone who would give them what they needed to benefit their cause. RESULTED in a simoniacal ɛƖɛctıon, an ɛƖɛctıon that is null and void, meaning no POPE.  As was explained in my post of yesterday NOT MY WORDS, BUT WORDS OF THE PAPACY.  


    Bringing attention to Fifth Lateran Council SESSION 5


    Julius, bishop, servant of the servants of God, for an everlasting record. From a consideration that the detestable crime of simony is forbidden by both divine and human law, particularly in spiritual matters, and that it is especially heinous and destructive for the whole church in the ɛƖɛctıon of the Roman pontiff, the vicar of our lord Jesus Christ, we therefore, placed by God in charge of the government of the same universal church, despite being of little merit, desire, so far as we are able with God’s help, to take effective measures for the future with regard to the aforesaid things, as we are bound to, in accordance with the necessity of such an important matter and the greatness of the danger. With the advice and unanimous consent of our brothers, cardinals of the holy Roman church, by means of this our constitution which will have permanent validity, we establish, ordain, decree and define, by apostolic authority and the fulness of our power, that if it happens (which may God avert in his mercy and goodness towards all), after God has released us or our successors from the government of the universal church, that by the efforts of the enemy of the human race and following the urge of ambition or greed, the ɛƖɛctıon of the Roman pontiff is made or effected by the person who is elected, or by one or several members of the college of cardinals, giving their votes in a manner that in any way involves simony being committed — by the gift, promise or receipt of money, goods of any sort, castles, offices, benefices, promises or obligations — by the person elected or by one or several other persons, in any manner or form whatsoever, even if the ɛƖɛctıon resulted in a majority of two-thirds or in the unanimous choice of all the cardinals, or even in a spontaneous agreement on the part of all, without a scrutiny being made, then not only is this ɛƖɛctıon or choice itself null, and does not bestow on the person elected or chosen in this fashion any right of either spiritual or temporal administration, but also there can be alleged and presented, against the person elected or chosen in this manner, by any one of the cardinals who has taken part in the ɛƖɛctıon, the charge of simony, as a true and unquestionable heresy, so that the one elected is not regarded by anyone as the Roman pontiff.
    A further consequence is that the person elected in this manner is automatically deprived, without the need of any other declaration, of his cardinal’s rank and of all other honours whatsoever as well as of cathedral churches, even metropolitan and patriarchical ones, monasteries, dignities and all other benefices and pensions of whatever kind which he was then holding by title or in commendam or otherwise; and that the elected person is to be regarded as, and is in fact, not a follower of the apostles but an apostate and, like Simon, a magicianl and a heresiarch, and perpetually debarred from each and all of the above-mentioned things. A simoniacal ɛƖɛctıon of this kind is never at any time to be made valid by a subsequent enthronement or the passage of time, or even by the act of adoration or obedience of all the cardinals. It shall be lawful for each and all of the cardinals, even those who consented to the simoniacal ɛƖɛctıon or promotion, even after the enthronement and adoration or obedience, as well as for all the clergy and the Roman people, together with those serving as prefects, castellans, captains and other officials at the Castel Sant’ Angelo in Rome and any other strongholds of the Roman church, notwithstanding any submission or oath or pledge given, to withdraw without penalty and at any time from obedience and loyalty to the person so elected even if he has been enthroned (while they themselves, notwithstanding this, remain fully committed to the faith of the Roman church and to obedience towards a future Roman pontiff entering office in accordance with the canons) and to avoid him as a magician, a heathen, a publican and a heresiarch. To discomfort him still further, if he uses the pretext of the ɛƖɛctıon to interfere in the government of the universal church, the cardinals who wish to oppose the aforesaid ɛƖɛctıon can ask for the help of the secular arm against him.

    That same Principle is repeated in this writing of Pope Clement XIV - 1769 Decet Quam Maxime
    Pope Clement XIV - 1769


    However we have this: Lateran V by Pope Julius at first glance would seem to constitute a strong argument for SVism. However, it should be noted that its provision on simony was annulled by Pope St. Pius X.

    Vacante Sede Apostolica: "It is manifest that the crime of simony, odious at once to God and man, is absolutely to be condemned in the ɛƖɛctıon of the Roman Pontiff. We reprobate and condemn it once more, and we declare that those guilty of the same incur the penalty of excommunication ipso facto. However, we annul the measure by which Julius II and his successors have invalidated simoniacal ɛƖɛctıons (from which may God preserve us!) that we may remove all pretext for contesting the validity of the ɛƖɛctıon of the Roman Pontiff."

    A similar legislation was passed under Pope Pius XII. It is clear that, the Catholic Church in the 20th century, was more concerned with "pretexts for contesting the validity of the ɛƖɛctıon of the Roman Pontiff." At any rate, Cardinal Billot says that Savonarola - who accused Pope Alexander VI of being both a heretic and a simoniac, and not Pope - was not correct, because of universal acceptance.

    Savonarola on Pope Alexander VI: "For I bear witness in the name of God that this Alexander VI is in no way Pope and cannot be. For quite apart from the execrable crime of simony, by which he got possession of the [papal] tiara through a sacrilegious bargaining, and by which every day he puts up to auction and knocks down to the highest bidder ecclesiastical benefices, and quite apart from his other vices - well-known to all - which I will pass over in silence, this I declare in the first place and affirm it with all certitude, that the man is not a Christian, he does not even believe any longer that there is a God; he goes beyond the final limits of infidelity and impiety" (Letter to the Emperor).


    After some research as to WHY Our Good Popes had a change of heart, it was an insight; while praying my rosary, thinking of the mysteries about how endings bring about beginnings. My humble opinion is


    When the Pope speaks in matters of Faith and Morals, he speaks through the Holy Ghost. Pope Julius at that time never expected the impossible would happen, the infiltration of wolves in sheep's clothing electing one of their own, for the destruction of THE CHURCH. Yet, he used language as "will have permanent validity."  In the end, said council condemned Conciliarism. 


     According to what I read, ɛƖɛctıons of popes did incur favors here and there, perhaps minor but nevertheless, this writing of Pope Julius was very severe in language. Fearing the HARSH discipline would result in many such ɛƖɛctıons as being void; therefore, the language was reduced in Discipline, however, consider this Latin term a fortiori is used to refer to an argument made from a previously made argument or previously proven fact. The original argument is considered to be stronger, or to come from a stronger basis than the second argument, therefore, the arguer presents the original claim to support his own, weaker claim.





    As we now know, a severe simoniacal ɛƖɛctıon did occur. Julius, inspired by the Holy Ghost, put into place a PRINCIPLE. A PRINCIPLE WE SHOULD CONSIDER knowing what we know today. A PRINCIPLE that protects the Church from Satan gaining the Seat of Peter. Knowing these "guys" were never popes, to begin with, proves the Holy Ghost guides His Church as we are taught in matters of Faith. "Thy Kingdom come Thy Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven."


    When Christ died on the Cross, And Jesus cried out with a loud voice and breathed His last. Then the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.” The veil was rent, meaning a new beginning! The Apostles continued teaching in the ѕуηαgσgυєs until such a time when it was apparent that most Jҽωs were enemies of Jesus. These SAME ѕуηαgσgυєS became the ѕуηαgσgυєs of Satan.


    Perhaps it's time to look to the early apostles and realize that Rome has become the Seat of Antichrist. "Always look to Rome?"
    This simoniacal ɛƖɛctıon took place. It was a repetitious event, like the tearing of the veil. The beginning of the Great Apostasy, we depend on Him who always was the Head of His Church and IS more VISIBLE until His Second Coming. 

    I know for sure we are not left as orphans, we do look to Rome to the encyclicals the past popes have left for us.  We have the Blessed Sacrament, and it grieves me to see Catholics accusing the sedevacantist position as if it were not Catholic teaching at certain times.  For how long, that is up to God, where He is there is NO TIME LIMIT!  




    Again: Fifth Lateran Council was NEVER revoked but was convened in response to a council summoned at Pisa by a group of Cardinals who were hostile to the Pope. The principles remain. On the election of Pope; it was decreed that simoniacal papal elections would be invalid and subject to penalty.
    YOU CAN READ IT HERE: https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecuм18.htm
    Pay attention to SESSION 5


     As Catholics who understand the enemies of God infiltrated and rose to the Hierarchy, voted their man, only for gaining benefits of promoting their plan of destruction from within the Church.
    While reading that SESSION 5, words were used to mean permanent discipline. " With the advice and unanimous consent of our brothers, cardinals of the holy Roman church, by means of this our constitution which will have permanent validity, we establish, ordain, decree and define, by apostolic authority and the fulness of our power, that if it happens (which may God avert in his mercy and goodness towards all), after God has released us or our successors from the government of the universal church, that by the efforts of the enemy of the human race and following the urge of ambition or greed, the election of the Roman pontiff is made or effected by the person who is elected, or by one or several members of the college of cardinals, giving their votes in a manner that in any way involves simony being committed — by the gift, promise or receipt of money, goods of any sort, castles, offices, benefices, promises or obligations"










    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Sedevacantism DESTROYED or?
    « Reply #19 on: May 18, 2022, 02:37:03 PM »
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  • The guy has a lot of conflicting beliefs and tries to mix Catholicism with "Orthodoxy" and goes to both services if I recall correctly.
    Oh boy, a heretic and schismatic? :facepalm:
    I knew something was up with his constant obsession with the Palamite heresy
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]