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Author Topic: Sedevacantism and Vatican I  (Read 2295 times)

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Offline Bonafidecat

Sedevacantism and Vatican I
« on: July 07, 2026, 05:14:12 PM »
Maybe this has been addressed already, but how does the sede explain this from VI, the reference to "perpetual successors"?


  • [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Therefore,
    [/color]
    • [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]if anyone says that
      [/color]
      • [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that[/color]
      • [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy:[/color]
      [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]let him be anathema.[/color]

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

  • Supporter
Re: Sedevacantism and Vatican I
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2026, 06:10:54 PM »


No one who holds the sedevacantist position denies that dogma. The solution to the apparent contradiction is that we hold that the Holy See is in an extended state of sedevacante. Most hold that when Pope Pius XII died in 1958 the Holy See became vacant. Obviously, every time after a pope dies there is a period when there is no pope and thus the whole world is sedevacantist. It stands to reason that because, at that time, there is no pope, those who recognize that fact don’t deny the dogma of perpetual succession.

Just because this is a much longer than an ordinary state of sedevacante, does not mean that we deny that dogma.
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Sedevacantism and Vatican I
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2026, 07:55:12 PM »
So .. we have no time for such tardery.

Perpetual Succession does not mean that there has to be a Pope on the See at all times.  So if you say there's such a thing as interregna, you're anathema?

Get lost, educate yourself some, and then come back before wasting more of our time.

If you want to present evidence about why this LENGTH of vacancy violates perpetual successors, where as 10 years doesn't, or 7 years 25 days, 15 hours, and 3 minutes does not ... please present it, but just pasting in an out-of-context dogmatic definition like some kind of Prot ("call no man father"), it's a waste of time and proves nothing.
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Offline Bonafidecat

Re: Sedevacantism and Vatican I
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2026, 08:58:03 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 07, 2026, 07:55:12 PM
So .. we have no time for such tardery.

Perpetual Succession does not mean that there has to be a Pope on the See at all times.  So if you say there's such a thing as interregna, you're anathema?

Get lost, educate yourself some, and then come back before wasting more of our time.

If you want to present evidence about why this LENGTH of vacancy violates perpetual successors, where as 10 years doesn't, or 7 years 25 days, 15 hours, and 3 minutes does not ... please present it, but just pasting in an out-of-context dogmatic definition like some kind of Prot ("call no man father"), it's a waste of time and proves nothing.


Oh dear, I appear to have chapped your surly ass with a simple question.  Get over yourself, sonny.
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Offline anonymouscatholicus

Re: Sedevacantism and Vatican I
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2026, 05:44:11 AM »
Theologian O'Reilly,  (The Relations of the Church to Society — Theological Essays, 1882, pg 287):

"There had been anti-popes before from time to time, but never for such a continuance... nor ever with such a following...

The great schism of the West suggests to me a reflection which I take the liberty of expressing here. If this schism had not occurred, the hypothesis of such a thing happening would appear to many chimerical. They would say it could not be; God would not permit the Church to come into so unhappy a situation. Heresies might spring up and spread and last painfully long, through the fault and to the perdition of their authors and abettors, to the great distress too of the faithful, increased by actual persecution in many places where the heretics were dominant. But that the true Church should remain between thirty and forty years without a thoroughly ascertained Head, and representative of Christ on earth, this would not be. 

Yet it has been; and we have no guarantee that it will not be again, though we may fervently hope otherwise. What I would infer is, that we must not be too ready to pronounce on what God may permit. We know with absolute certainty that He will fulfill His promises; not allow anything to occur at variance with them; that He will sustain His Church and enable her to triumph over all enemies and difficulties; that He will give to each of the faithful those graces which are needed for each one’s service of Him and attainment of salvation, as He did during the great schism we have been considering, and in all the sufferings and trials which the Church has passed through from the beginning."
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