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Author Topic: Pope St. Pius X on reconvening Vatican I  (Read 570 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Pope St. Pius X on reconvening Vatican I
« on: September 05, 2019, 07:08:26 PM »
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    • At the end of Pope St. Pius X's 1905 Catechismo maggiore, he gives a "Brief Notes of Ecclesiastical History" (Brevi cenni di storia ecclesiastica), which is not translated in the Catechism of St. Pius X. Describing the First Vatican Council, he writes:
    Quote from: Pope St. Pius X
    3135 135. Il Sommo Pontefice Pio IX, dopo di avere in un Sillabo, condannato molte delle più essenziali proposizioni di questi temerari cristiani, per portare la scure alla radice del male aveva convocato in Roma un nuovo concilio ecuмenico. Questo aveva felicemente incominciato l'opera sua illustre e benefica nelle prime sessioni tenute nella basilica di S. Pietro in Vaticano (onde ebbe il nome di Concilio Vaticano), quando nel 1870 per le vicende dei tempi dovette sospendere le sue sedute.
     
    [3135 135. The Supreme Pontiff Pius IX, after having in a Syllabus condemned many of the most essential propositions of these temerarious Christians, summoned a new ecuмenical council in Rome to bring the ax to the root of the evil. This happily began his illustrious and beneficial work in the first sessions held in the basilica of St. Peter in the Vatican (from which it took the name of Vatican Council), when in 1870, due to the [Freemasonic] events of the times, he had to suspend his sessions.]
     
    3136 136. Giova sperare che, quietata la burrasca la quale agita momentaneamente la Chiesa, il Romano Pontefice potrà ripigliare e condurre a termine l'opera provvidenziale del santo concilio; e che sconfitti gli errori, i quali ora travagliano la Chiesa e la società civile, sarà dato presto di vedere la verità cattolica brillare di nuova luce ed illuminare il mondo de' suoi eterni splendori.
     
    [3136 136. It is worthwhile to hope that, once the storm has shaken the Church, the Roman Pontiff will be able to resume and complete the providential work of the holy council; and that the errors defeated, which now torment the Church and civil society, one will soon see the Catholic truth shine with new light and illuminate the world with its eternal splendors.]
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Pope St. Pius X on reconvening Vatican I
    « Reply #1 on: September 05, 2019, 09:16:05 PM »
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    • Does this mean that the Vatican Council (sometimes called "Vatican I", though obviously they didn't call it that) has never been formally concluded?  And it could, at least in theory, be resumed?

    That could be a very good thing.
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    Offline monka966

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    Re: Pope St. Pius X on reconvening Vatican I
    « Reply #2 on: September 05, 2019, 09:20:39 PM »
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    • God works in mysterious ways. Maybe this is the proverbial "loophole" through which all things can be restored in Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior?
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Pope St. Pius X on reconvening Vatican I
    « Reply #3 on: September 05, 2019, 10:01:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on September 05, 2019, 09:16:05 PM
    Does this mean that the Vatican Council […] has never been formally concluded?

    I'm not sure if it was, but John XXIII implied in his Humanæ salutis (25 Dec. 1962) that Vatican II was not a reconvening of Vatican I:
    Quote from: John XXIII
    …the gift of a new ecuмenical Council, as an addition to and a continuation of the series of twenty great Councils…
    cf. Vatican II was convened explicitly against Vatican I
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Pope St. Pius X on reconvening Vatican I
    « Reply #4 on: September 05, 2019, 10:33:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on September 05, 2019, 09:16:05 PM
    Does this mean that the Vatican Council […] has never been formally concluded?
    According to Kirch's Old Catholic Encyclopedia article, Pius IX "issued on 20 Oct. [1870] the Bull, 'Postquam Dei munere', which prorogued [postponed] the council indefinitely", so it was never formally concluded.

    The Council of Trent encountered much opposition, too. It wasn't entirely at Trent, and it was suspended for 4 years.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Pope St. Pius X on reconvening Vatican I
    « Reply #5 on: September 05, 2019, 10:36:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Geremia on September 05, 2019, 10:01:50 PM
    I'm not sure if it was, but John XXIII implied in his Humanæ salutis (25 Dec. 1962) that Vatican II was not a reconvening of Vatican I:cf. Vatican II was convened explicitly against Vatican I
    I see what you are saying, but logically, it could be construed either way --- if we were to admit the possibility (and yes, this is really "reaching") that one council can be suspended, another council can then be convened and ended, and then the first council could be resumed.  A "council sandwich", if you will.  Is that even possible?
    As a practical matter we will probably never see "Vatican I" resumed.  But you never know.  As another poster said, Our Lord works in mysterious ways.  Look at the "loophole", if you want to call it that, that resulted in the Church having to acknowledge that Quo primum was never abrogated.  I for one didn't see that one coming either (but I'm glad it did).
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Pope St. Pius X on reconvening Vatican I
    « Reply #6 on: September 05, 2019, 10:48:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on September 05, 2019, 10:36:56 PM
    one council can be suspended, another council can then be convened and ended, and then the first council could be resumed.  A "council sandwich", if you will.  Is that even possible?
    Why not? All that matters are the docuмents a true pope ratifies and promulgates. Councils are to counsel the pope; all authority comes from him.
    Paul III convoked Trent, Julius III resumed it, and Pius IV confirmed it. There was even Marcellus II in there, too, who lived only about a month.
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    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Pope St. Pius X on reconvening Vatican I
    « Reply #7 on: September 06, 2019, 01:59:00 AM »
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    • Edit :cheers:
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    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline poche

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    Re: Pope St. Pius X on reconvening Vatican I
    « Reply #8 on: September 07, 2019, 01:51:32 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on September 05, 2019, 09:16:05 PM
    Does this mean that the Vatican Council (sometimes called "Vatican I", though obviously they didn't call it that) has never been formally concluded?  And it could, at least in theory, be resumed?

    That could be a very good thing.
    I was told that there was a debate whether to call Vatican II or just a continuation of the interrupted council.
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    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Pope St. Pius X on reconvening Vatican I
    « Reply #9 on: September 07, 2019, 05:46:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: poche on September 07, 2019, 01:51:32 AM
    I was told that there was a debate whether to call Vatican II or just a continuation of the interrupted council.
    Who was on the "reconvening Vatican I" side of the debate?
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