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Author Topic: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...  (Read 5256 times)

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Offline SkidRowCatholic

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  • So, this sermon is a bit long, but interesting. It seems +Roy is up for giving Bro-Bug a run for his $$$.

    It centers on a "solution" to the crisis.

    Within he calls the concept of 3 people electing a Pope in a garage "ridiculous".

    What he is advocating for is an, "imperfect council of the Church made up of all the faithful" (I suspect he means represented by their clergy).

    And that it is the duty of the clergy, "to provide the Church with a true Pope".

    He is just asking for prayers now.

    I know he has met with CMRI before and they have a mutually friendly relationship...

    And that a priest of the CMRI spoke in a conference about how the clergy holding an imperfect council could be a "solution".

    I think the SSPV would be against it

    I am not sure which way the RCI/IMBC would go...

    But, I am also curious how Resistance individuals view his thoughts - not the validity/invalidity of his orders - but his actual arguments he is making within the sermon itself.

    I suppose if you are a dogmatic R&R - to listen to this sermon would be considered heresy, schism, or both.


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #1 on: January 11, 2026, 09:00:32 PM »
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  • Just a hair away from what is know as "Conclavism". I consider it to be the craziest side of the Traditionalist spectrum. A sure path to madness.


    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #2 on: January 11, 2026, 09:04:05 PM »
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  • Could devout Catholics be blamed for electing a ruler to uphold Tradition with authority, given the circuмstances of this crisis?
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Emile

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #3 on: January 11, 2026, 09:15:43 PM »
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  • Could devout Catholics be blamed for electing a ruler to uphold Tradition with authority, given the circuмstances of this crisis?
    In the same vein, could devout Catholics ever be blamed for doubting the validity of such an election?
    “It's easy to be a naive idealist. It's easy to be a cynical realist. It's quite another thing to have no illusions and still hold the inner flame.”
     M.-L. von Franz

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #4 on: January 11, 2026, 10:05:43 PM »
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  • I really wish that Trad bishops would stop using croziers, as if they had jurisdiction.  Stop it.  I know they like their cool-looking clerical garb, but they need to stop it.  Use faldstools.  They're just emergency dispensers of Sacraments.

    As for electing a Pope, many other have tried before him, and they always fail, since they will never obtain any kind of universal consensus on the matter.  Imperfect Councils, without there being a Pope, are only as good as they represent the universality of the Church.  You have far too many Trads, the SSPX types, as well as the Motarians ... who refuse to admit that the See is vacant, and even beyond them the sedprivationists believe that such elections are impeded.

    So what you have left is a group of Totalist Sedevacantists, who represent perhaps 5-10% of Traditional Catholics ... and that's why any such efforts are doomed out of the gate.  Does Bishop Roy fancy himself the first to come up with this idea ... that he in his brilliance will somehow succeed when many others have failed?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #5 on: January 11, 2026, 10:11:17 PM »
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  • In the same vein, could devout Catholics ever be blamed for doubting the validity of such an election?

    Yes, even though I myself am a "Totalist" sedevacantist, in the sense that I believe that the Siri Theory holds the key and even though sedeprivationism is superior in principle to Totalistm, because Siri had obstructed the ability of the Conciliar papal claimants to have even a material claim on the office ... in other words, where I believe that Traditional Catholics could in fact convene and elect a True Pope ... if Bishop Roy, the St. Getrudites, and CMRI got together and elected a Pope, I'd consider there to be 5% chance that such an election would be legitimate, since it could never achieve universal acceptance among Catholics.  In other words, I'm a Totalist (de facto) and I MYSELF WOULD NOT ACCEPT such an election.  So there's that too, where even of that 5% of Traditional Catholics who are convinced Totalists, a significant percentage of them would have serious doubts about such an election, wondering if Shuckhardt, Bawden, Dominguez, Pulvermacher, von Pentz, and now Hildebrand (aka Bugnolo) ... didn't have only slightly weaker claims to the papacy.  Dominguez actually even had stigmata, could see even though he physically lost both his eyes in a card accident, and would levitate while offering Mass.

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #6 on: January 11, 2026, 10:14:18 PM »
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  • You mean like this? 


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #7 on: January 11, 2026, 10:19:54 PM »
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  • You mean like this?

    I never heard of that guy.  Is he the current successor of Dominguez or something?

    In any case, if you look here, the Totalists are even infighting, where they descend from the same basic line.
    https://www.sgg.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Letter-2023.pdf

    Here you have +McGuire, who himself was consecrated by +da Silva, denouncing the consecrations of +Roy and +Altamira ... by the same bishop who consecrated him.  :facepalm:

    I guess that +McGuire considers himself the arbiter of who would be a suitable bishop and who would not, and denounces them because they had not been first submitted to his own impeccable judgment for consideration.

    What a train-wreck these guys are !  I've heard from people who knew Fr. McGuire for many years and who felt that he was decidedly unqualified to be a bishop, and I'll just leave it at that.

    If you look at +McGuire's denunciation, he fancies himself the head of some "international apostolate of St. Getrude the Great".  What the heck even is that?  So now they have some kind of international mission, for their little po'dunk chapel?  He insists that he should be consulted regarding all such consecrations.  Then, he points out that +Dolan took many years before consecrating anyone else and only "under extreme circuмstances".  Sounds a lot like SSPX denouncing +Williamson's consecrations.  Who decides what "extreme circuмstances" are?  +McGuire?

    I disagree that there need be "extreme circuмstances".  It suffices that the faithful need some Sacraments that can typically only be provided by bishops, and if we understand that these bishops are merely emergency dispensers of said Sacraments, and lack jurisdiciton, his "concern" is misplaced.  It's only if you pretend that you have some quasi-jurisdiction, such as when you head up the "inernational apostolate of St. Gertrude the Great" that you would have serious problems with this.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #8 on: January 11, 2026, 10:35:51 PM »
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  • Why is it that so many of today's Trad bishops and priests remind me so very much of the little boy who play priest, where they dress up and act the part, but just come across as a bunch of pretenders who project a sense of self-importance?  I see very little of that humble and genuine zeal for the salvation of souls, but just them jockeying among one another to see who can make his little pond bigger than the other guy's little pond, so that he could pretend to be the bigger fish in the pond.

    Apart from among The Nine, I sensed so little of this among the early generations of Traditional clergy, where the priests I knew, and Bishop Williamson .. did not project this attitude, but where they simply cared about the souls entrusted to their care and wished only to do the will of God.

    Among the Resistance today, I sense no such attitude from Bishops Faure and Thomas Aquinas and Zendejas, but it's very much evident in Ballini, Morgan, and Stobnicki.

    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #9 on: January 11, 2026, 10:58:50 PM »
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  • Why is it that so many of today's Trad bishops and priests remind me so very much of the little boy who play priest, where they dress up and act the part, but just come across as a bunch of pretenders who project a sense of self-importance?  I see very little of that humble and genuine zeal for the salvation of souls, but just them jockeying among one another to see who can make his little pond bigger than the other guy's little pond, so that he could pretend to be the bigger fish in the pond.

    Apart from among The Nine, I sensed so little of this among the early generations of Traditional clergy, where the priests I knew, and Bishop Williamson .. did not project this attitude, but where they simply cared about the souls entrusted to their care and wished only to do the will of God.

    Among the Resistance today, I sense no such attitude from Bishops Faure and Thomas Aquinas and Zendejas, but it's very much evident in Ballini, Morgan, and Stobnicki.


    Explain how you see this with stobnicki or Morgan? Because they are relatively young??

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #10 on: January 12, 2026, 09:36:25 AM »
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  • There may be some 10,000 Sedevacantists throughout the world, with the most important centers in the United States, Mexico, France, Italy, Germany, and the Czech Republic. The small Japanese group Seibo no Mikuni, founded in 1970 by Yukio Nemoto (1925-1988), remains largely isolated because of its peculiar millennial beliefs. Most of them believe that forming a central organization would be tantamount to establishing a schismatic alternative to the Roman Catholic Church. They prefer to remain a network of small groups and see themselves as the only surviving remnant of the one true post-Second Vatican Council Catholic Church. One of their main problems is how to respond to the issue of the future of Catholic authority. By definition, they regard the pope as essential for the church’s very survival and infallibility, but, at the same time, they maintain that there is no (legitimate) pope in Rome at present. A large majority of Sedevacantists dismiss as non-canonical, and even ridiculous, the very idea that they could convene a conclave and elect a pope of their own; they prefer to wait for a solution to come directly, and perhaps unpredictably, from God, whose ways, they say, are after all not human ways. A few Sedevacantists, on the other hand, are “conclavist”—that is, they believe a conclave should be called (composed of all, or at least most, Sedevacantist bishops) and a new pope duly elected. Conclavists realize nonetheless that, should a conclave be organized, the majority of the Sedevacantist bishops would refuse to attend it, and that some groups (such as the Italian Association of St. Mary Salus Populi Romani, headquartered in Turin, Italy) regard a conclave as certainly desirable but, at least for the time being, impracticable. Attempts have been made to organize a conclave, however: in 1994, for example, some 20 Sedevacantist bishops from 12 different countries met in Assisi, Italy, and elected as pope a South African priest (and former student at Lefebvre’s seminary), Victor Von Pentz (b. 1953), under the name of Linus II. He currently resides in the United Kingdom and maintains but a limited following. Some conclavists have, on the other hand, joined other alternative popes (“antipopes,” according to Roman Catholic theology), who, even before the full development of the Sedevacantist network, had claimed that their role was based both on the alleged heresies of the Second Vatican Council and on mystical visions calling them to the pontificate without the need of any conclave or election. One of the earliest “pretenders” was a French priest, Michel-Auguste-Marie Collin (1905-1974), who claimed to have been called by heaven itself to become Pope Clemens XV during the Second Vatican Council, in 1963. Collin established an alternative Vatican in Clémery, Lorraine, where he also founded a Renewed Church of Christ, known outside France as the Church of the Magnificat. After Collin’s death in 1974, his church nearly collapsed entirely, and it is now reduced to a small remnant of what it once was. One of Collin’s followers, however, the Québec priest Gaston Tremblay (b. 1928), had already ceased to recognize the French claimant in 1968 and had proclaimed himself Pope Gregory XVII. His movement is called the Apostles of Infinite Love.

    Tremblay’s main competitor was Clemente Domínguez y Gómez (1946-2005), one of the seers in the alleged Marian apparitions of Palmar de Troya, Spain (1968-1976), and later a “Thuc bishop,” consecrated by the Vietnamese archbishop on January 11, 1976. In 1978, Domínguez (in the meantime blinded in a car accident in May 1976) revealed that he had been mystically designated by Jesus Christ as the new pope in a 1976 vision, and his followers confirmed his election as Pope Gregory XVII (the same name adopted by Tremblay in Québec). His Catholic, Apostolic, and Palmarian Church (named after the town of Palmar de Troya) is probably the single largest organization bowing to the authority of an “alternative” pope, with more than 1,000 followers in Spain and several hundreds more internationally. In the 1990s, however, Domínguez was accused of sɛҳuąƖ immorality with several nuns of the order he had established in the meantime; in 1997 he admitted his sins and asked for his community’s forgiveness. Most followers remained loyal to Domínguez and, after his death in 2005, to his handpicked successor, former lawyer and “Thuc bishop” Manuel Alonso Corral, who became Pope Peter II. Others, however, have both doubted the sincerity of Domínguez in his apology and questioned his decision to appoint a successor rather than leave this choice to a conclave including the many cardinals he had in the meantime appointed from among his bishops. At the end of 2000, 17 bishops with a couple of hundred followers left the Palmarian Church and formed a splinter movement known as The Tribe. Other claimants to the role of pope have included Father Gino Frediani (1913-1984), the parish priest of Gavinana (province of Pistoia, Italy), who in 1973 claimed to have been mystically consecrated by Jesus Christ and several Old Testament prophets as Pope Emmanuel I. He gathered several hundred followers; after his death, a hundred have remained active in his New Church of the Holy Heart of Jesus under the leadership of his successor, Father Sergio Melani (who, however, makes no claim to being the new pope). A couple of dozen rival “antipopes” operate in several countries, but none of them have more than a handful of followers. Among them are Father Lucian Pulvermacher (b. 1918), who in 1998 proclaimed himself the new pope under the name Pius XIII (http://www.truecatholic.us); and David Allen Bawden (b. 1959), living in the Kansas countryside, once a seminarian with the Society of Saint Pius X (where he had never been ordained to the priesthood), who on July 16, 1990, was elected by a group of six laypeople (including three women) as Pope Michael.

    A special position is nonetheless maintained by William Kamm (b. 1950), a German-born Catholic lay preacher living in Australia and known as “Little Pebble.” It is claimed that the Virgin Mary has revealed to Kamm that the post-Second Vatican Council popes, including John Paul II and Benedict XVI, are indeed legitimate (contrary to the Sedevacantist thesis). On the other hand, heaven has designated Kamm as a future pope under the name Peter II. Kamm gathered more than 1,000 followers in several countries, some of them living communally and most of them members of a religious order known as the Order of Saint Charbel (named after the popular Catholic Lebanese saint Charbel Maklouf [1828-1898]). The Australian Catholic bishops, despite his protests, have repeatedly branded Kamm’s organization as schismatic and not a legitimate part of the Catholic Church. Their position seemed vindicated when in 2005 and 2007 Kamm was sentenced to two jail terms for sɛҳuąƖ relations with two minor girls. Kamm did not deny the relations, but claimed that the Virgin Mary in an apparition had authorized him to take as many as 84 “mystical wives.” Kamm is now in jail and will not be eligible for parole before 2013. Many followers have left the Order of Saint Charbel and only a handful remain loyal to Kamm.

    https://isidore.co/misc/Res%20pro%20Deo/Sede/Sedevacantism%20and%20Antipopes.pdf


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #11 on: January 12, 2026, 03:22:35 PM »
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  • So, the one comment I have to make about the long excerpt from above is that I absolutely call BS on Von Pentz's Assisi conclave.

    There were no "20 bishops from 12 different countries" that met at Assisi to elect Von Pentz.

    I knew the guy at Winona, when he was a seminarian there.  He was constantly spinning nonsense, tall tales, aka, BS, in an almost pathological manner ... making Ambrose Moran look like the paragon of honesty by comparison, and it came as no surprise to anyone when he had been shown the door.  He then allgedly went on to be ordained a priest in the Eastern Rite, but I would certainly not wager my soul on that ever having happened, and, to be honest, if I had to wager $100 one way or the other, I'd put it down on the his having made that up.  He told everyone at Winona that he had been ordained a deacon in the Eastern Rite, but the seminary never allowed him to function as such, undoubtedly because he had zero evidence for this claim.

    There were only 2 bishops TOPS who MAY have shown up, and that would have been Korab and Lopez-Gaston, the latter being the very strange invididual who had been consecrated by the alleged "Bishop" Roux ... whom most believe to have lied about having been consecrated by +Thuc.  Korab was also "consecrated" by Lopez-Gaston, the same bishop, BTW, who ordained Coomaraswamy.  I think that there are positive doubts about +?Roux, and in fact there's an abundance of evidence that he made the whole thing up and wasn't a bishop at all.

    In any case, they later made up some mythology about Von Pentz having been consecrated by Bishop Arrigo Pintonello.  Now, the reason they had chosen Pintonello was because the man had been almost legendary in SV circles, since he was the only bishop who actively refused to sign any of the Vatican II docuмents.  There were some who didn't sign because they didn't show up, but everyone signed them in the end, even Archbishop Lefebvre, after Motini basically ordered them to.  But +Pintonello refused.  Others had sought him out for episcopal consecration before, but +Pintonello had not obliged them, so I doubt that he'd swoop in to consecrate a half-crazy Von Pentz.

    As far as I'm concerned, it's just as likely that Von Pentz sat down with a drinking buddy and concocted the entire thing and no conclave ever took place.

    Of course, adding to the drama, they spun this story about how Von Pentz had been elected on 9 straight ballots, refusing each time, until on the 10th ballot the vote had been unnaimous, at which point he "reluctantly" accepted.  Yeah, right.  Von Pentz wouldn't have refused it for even a nanosecond.  So 20 bishops showed up just to elect this relatively-unknown (and unverifiable) Eastern Rite "priest" as Pope ... rather than one of those 20 bishops?

    Evidently Linus II either abdicated or else did not get enough revenue from Linus's Pence to even support himself as a priest ... or he just finally gave up on the scam and returned to secular life.
    https://www.linkedin.com/in/victor-von-pentz-b9932ba4

    If it were possible, I'd say that Von Pentz is far less reliable and trustworthy than even Ambrose (aka William Moran), since I do believe +Moran had scammed himself into receiving episcopal consecration from some Orthodox group.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #12 on: January 12, 2026, 03:42:46 PM »
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  • Note, however, that Dominguez (whom I believe to have had preternatural abilities in cooperation with dark forces) took on the name "Gregory XVII".  Archbishop Lefebvre also thought that movement was diabolical.  If it was diabolical, vs. just a human fabrication ... that might lend further support to Cardinal Siri having been elected Gregory XVII, where the devil would be mocking and/or discrediting (or perhaps both) the election of Cardinal Siri.

    Offline CB1096

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #13 on: January 12, 2026, 04:14:15 PM »
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  • The biggest issue with this talk of conclave is that it never seems to include any non-sede valid bishops. At the very least SSPX + Resistance + Eastern Rites would need to be included to have any shred of legitimacy. This is ignoring the fact that only Eastern Rite bishops could maybe qualify as electors because they have jurisdiction whereas everyone else does not. 

    As a sede, the biggest problem amongst sedes is the fact that many see themselves as the only true Catholics.  They do not recognize the reality that Catholics includes the SSPX, Resistance, Eastern Rites, and much more among the Novus Ordo than sedes and many trads would like to admit. 

    Offline Clemens

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    Re: Sede bishop begins to "work" towards electing a true Roman Pontiff...
    « Reply #14 on: January 12, 2026, 06:56:58 PM »
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  • The biggest issue with this talk of conclave is that it never seems to include any non-sede valid bishops. At the very least SSPX + Resistance + Eastern Rites would need to be included to have any shred of legitimacy. This is ignoring the fact that only Eastern Rite bishops could maybe qualify as electors because they have jurisdiction whereas everyone else does not.

    As a sede, the biggest problem amongst sedes is the fact that many see themselves as the only true Catholics.  They do not recognize the reality that Catholics includes the SSPX, Resistance, Eastern Rites, and much more among the Novus Ordo than sedes and many trads would like to admit.
    Bishop Roy is not opposed to the SSPX and Resistance being represented in an eventual imperfect council. It has happened in the past that people professing to be Catholic met in general councils without agreeing about everything. If there is such a meeting, he does not necessarily expect that a valid election will happen immediately. He wants traditional bishops to meet and discuss the issues and he is aware of the practical challenges.