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Author Topic: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests  (Read 3640 times)

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Offline RomanCatholic1953

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Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
« on: July 04, 2018, 11:33:29 AM »
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    • Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests

    From the Voice of Bombay Laity, India

    https://mumbailaity.wordpress.com/2018/07/
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    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #1 on: July 04, 2018, 11:42:14 AM »
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    • Don't need to go all the way to India for that.
    .
    It happened to me, here in the USA, more than once.
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    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #2 on: July 04, 2018, 11:50:32 AM »
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    • Article says " Malankara Orthodox Church"  - not Catholic.
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    Offline Carissima

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #3 on: July 04, 2018, 12:06:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: TxTrad on July 04, 2018, 11:42:14 AM
    Don't need to go all the way to India for that.
    .
    It happened to me, here in the USA, more than once.
    Horrible!
    I am so sorry that happened to you, it is a miracle you found out what he did. 
    How many more souls is this happening to and they don’t ever find out?

    I personally had an issue with my priest years ago at my SSPX chapel who would bring his cellphone with him in the confessional and while I was confessing my sins I could see his smartphone screen lit up until I was finished and then he would turn it off. 
    I was mortified of course because I know that smartphones have the capability to listen and/or record. And why would he even have it on during my confession in the first place? 
    I didn’t have the courage to confront him in person or even ask him in confession, but I did voice my concerns to the chapel coordinator and he said he’d speak to him. The Priest was transferred soon after but I don’t know if that had anything to do with it. 

    It was rumored that a listening device was found in the confessional at the Ky chapel. I don’t know if it was true but I wouldn’t be surprised. 
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    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #4 on: July 04, 2018, 02:36:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Carissima on July 04, 2018, 12:06:55 PM
    Horrible!
    I am so sorry that happened to you, it is a miracle you found out what he did.
    How many more souls is this happening to and they don’t ever find out?

    It was rumored that a listening device was found in the confessional at the Ky chapel. I don’t know if it was true but I wouldn’t be surprised.
    probably a lot.
    .
    Listening device rumored here, too, in sspx chapels.
    .
    I noticed, once, at our fraternity of St. Peter chapel, which we haven't attended since being profiled, that women were kneeling near the confessionals, leaning to hear what was being said.  I also once saw a woman (who wrote a book on modesty that most families own) standing next to the open window of the confessional (on the priests side).   I yelled at her and she left.  I hope the priest heard me.
    .
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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #5 on: July 05, 2018, 12:31:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: TxTrad on July 04, 2018, 02:36:16 PM
    probably a lot.
    .
    Listening device rumored here, too, in sspx chapels.
    .
    I noticed, once, at our fraternity of St. Peter chapel, which we haven't attended since being profiled, that women were kneeling near the confessionals, leaning to hear what was being said.  I also once saw a woman (who wrote a book on modesty that most families own) standing next to the open window of the confessional (on the priests side).   I yelled at her and she left.  I hope the priest heard me.
    .
    There was a woman in my old SSPX chapel who would sit in the back pew right near the confessional door.  Several times various people asked the priest to speak with her about it.  One priest spoke from the pulpit that nobody should use the five rear pews when the confessional was in use unless it was while Mass was going on.  If I saw her there, then I didn't go to confession.
    I cannot say I ever had a priest violate the seal of confession with me.  Then again, I don't think anyone would find my sins of interest.
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #6 on: July 05, 2018, 11:35:41 AM »
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    • That is scary.  And how many other were women were sɛҳuąƖly abused in India.  And to use Confession to prey on victims is really evil.  

    For any priest to abuse the Seal of Confession is a mortal sin.  

    And a woman to listen to other people's confession is evil too. 

    And to record people's private conversations is sinful too.  

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    Offline tdrev123

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #7 on: July 05, 2018, 04:17:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey on July 05, 2018, 11:35:41 AM
    That is scary.  And how many other were women were sɛҳuąƖly abused in India.  And to use Confession to prey on victims is really evil.  

    For any priest to abuse the Seal of Confession is a mortal sin.  

    And a woman to listen to other people's confession is evil too.

    And to record people's private conversations is sinful too.  
    If a priest abuses the sin of the confessional only the pope can absolve them,  one of the worst sins that will put you in the bottom of the lake of fire.
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    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #8 on: July 05, 2018, 05:31:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: tdrev123 on July 05, 2018, 04:17:50 PM
    If a priest abuses the sin of the confessional only the pope can absolve them,  one of the worst sins that will put you in the bottom of the lake of fire.
    You are right.  Sacrilege.  And from a priest?  Wouldnt want to be in his shoes...
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    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #9 on: July 05, 2018, 05:34:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey on July 05, 2018, 11:35:41 AM
    That is scary. 

    For any priest to abuse the Seal of Confession is a mortal sin.  

    And a woman to listen to other people's confession is evil too.

    And to record people's private conversations is sinful too.  
    It's not scary, VCR, breaking the confessional seal is a sacrilege.  Priests have died rather than commit that sin.  That tells you how bad it is.
    .
    Laity listening to others confessions or recording confessions could be sacrilege, too.  If not, they are certainly serious mortal sins... 
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    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #10 on: July 05, 2018, 07:47:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey on July 05, 2018, 11:35:41 AM
    That is scary.  And how many other were women were sɛҳuąƖly abused in India.  And to use Confession to prey on victims is really evil.  

    For any priest to abuse the Seal of Confession is a mortal sin.  

    And a woman to listen to other people's confession is evil too.

    And to record people's private conversations is sinful too.  
    It's the sacrilege of sacrileges. It's not just scary.
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    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #11 on: July 05, 2018, 08:29:44 PM »
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    • Let's begin with waiting behavior.

    Our confessionals must be virtually soundproof because I have never heard anything when standing outside them, and that means fairly close to the priest's side (not the penitent's).  It's just the way the line works because otherwise we would be blocking a narrow aisle.

    That said, as a matter of form, I find it extremely rude to stand or kneel unnecessarily close to the door, merely because it looks to be very inappropriate, to say the least, and it certainly is not necessary.  That said (again), how does anybody know that such behavior is for the express purpose of listening to other people's sins?  Most of us generally recoil at the prospect of hearing someone's sins; we don't want to, and in fact we are told not only not to repeat what we said in confession, but also not to repeat what our confessor said.  Is it possible that the bad manners of others are related to ignorance and not to morbid curiosity?

    As to The Seal, that would be shocking, given the penalty to the priest (automatic excommunication); pretty high risk stuff on his part, and certain a grave injustice to the penitent.  But without disclosing private details, can anyone give the general circuмstances -- such as whether the sins mentioned were mentioned to the penitent?  If they were mentioned to a third party, how was the penitent made aware of such a breaking of the Seal? (Again, if it's possible to explain without revealing anything uncomfortable regarding identities, etc.)
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    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #12 on: July 05, 2018, 09:35:59 PM »
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    • Quote from: MMagdala on July 05, 2018, 08:29:44 PM
    Let's begin with waiting behavior.

    Our confessionals must be virtually soundproof because I have never heard anything when standing outside them, and that means fairly close to the priest's side (not the penitent's).  It's just the way the line works because otherwise we would be blocking a narrow aisle.

    That said, as a matter of form, I find it extremely rude to stand or kneel unnecessarily close to the door, merely because it looks to be very inappropriate, to say the least, and it certainly is not necessary.  That said (again), how does anybody know that such behavior is for the express purpose of listening to other people's sins?  Most of us generally recoil at the prospect of hearing someone's sins; we don't want to, and in fact we are told not only not to repeat what we said in confession, but also not to repeat what our confessor said.  Is it possible that the bad manners of others are related to ignorance and not to morbid curiosity?

    As to The Seal, that would be shocking, given the penalty to the priest (automatic excommunication); pretty high risk stuff on his part, and certain a grave injustice to the penitent.  But without disclosing private details, can anyone give the general circuмstances -- such as whether the sins mentioned were mentioned to the penitent?  If they were mentioned to a third party, how was the penitent made aware of such a breaking of the Seal? (Again, if it's possible to explain without revealing anything uncomfortable regarding identities, etc.)
    I can't imagine WANTING to listen to the sins of others, but I assure you I am not mistaken.  The woman by the open window of the confessional and the woman leaning so she could hear better (a fan was later put outside that confessional to make is harder to hear others).
    .
    As to how I found out the confessional seal was broken, a friend who I went i church with told me what our priest said to her about me.  It was exactly what I had told him in confession the previous day.  I had never told another living soul.  
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    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #13 on: July 06, 2018, 02:01:55 AM »
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    • Quote from: TxTrad on July 05, 2018, 09:35:59 PM
    I can't imagine WANTING to listen to the sins of others, but I assure you I am not mistaken.  The woman by the open window of the confessional and the woman leaning so she could hear better (a fan was later put outside that confessional to make is harder to hear others).
    .
    As to how I found out the confessional seal was broken, a friend who I went i church with told me what our priest said to her about me.  It was exactly what I had told him in confession the previous day.  I had never told another living soul.  
    The friend could have misunderstood what the priest said, possibly?  She, or you, misinterpreted what he said?  Also, most priests (a) forget quickly what is said in the confessional, since they hear so many confessions, (b) are actually not all that interested in remembering the sins they hear, let alone repeating them to others (because of the severe punishment).  I mention that because you said, 

    "It was exactly what I had told him in confession the previous day."  [bolding mine]

    Given how quickly priests forget, it would be extraordinary to remember a verbatim confession, and to care enough about remembering it to share it with a third party, and then third to risk his own excommunication.
    Keep in mind that priests hear repeated patterns of sins-- from many parishioners -- in the course of even a single month.  Some sins are so common that they could be "lifted" from any random person's confession without the priest intending to identify anyone -- that's how common they are.  And he is covered, canonically, for doing that, by the way -- IOW, for saying things like, "Anger is the most frequently repeated sin in my confessional."  Priests are allowed to speak vaguely of generic sins confessed without identifying a particular confession moment or a particular penitent.

    So be careful of repeating things you heard from a third party -- about anyone, but certainly about this matter, because of the severe consequences to the priest and to his reputation.  I'm not saying that I "know" that it didn't happen, but I am saying that it is unlikely that a priest would recklessly mention your specific confession to a third party, and there is a great risk here of calumny or detraction.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Seal of Confession Broken by Catholic Priests
    « Reply #14 on: July 06, 2018, 03:07:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: JezusDeKoning on July 05, 2018, 07:47:38 PM
    It's the sacrilege of sacrileges. It's not just scary.
    Can.  983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason.
    §2. The interpreter, if there is one, and all others who in any way have knowledge of sins from confession are also obliged to observe secrecy.

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3G.HTM

    Those individuals who are near the confessional even if by accident are obliged to observe the same secrecy as the priest.
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