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Author Topic: An example of His Excellency Bishop Fellay's saintliness: One Peter Five Article  (Read 2840 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Good Archbishop Lefebvre quote about liberals:

"Catholic liberals have kept on saying that their will for Tradition is equivalent to that of most intransigent persons. The compromise they have sought is not theoretical but practical....They always come back to this reasoning. They are telling us: 'See, we are shepherds. We accept the reality, we are concrete people, we are practical!' But what is this practice? The practice is the implementation of principles with the help of the virtue of prudence, it is nothing other than that.

"What is the practice when the principles are missing?...'Yes, yes, yes, we agree, we share the same Credo, etcetera. Yes, but when we find ourselves in the world, then one must adjust oneself to the level of the others, one must live with the others, if not, you will never convert others.' To say this is a total error!...Popes have perceived the danger of those Catholics that are elusive because they claim, when one wants to corner them: 'No, no, I agree.' But afterwards, they come to terms with the enemies of the Church...they are traitors...more dreadful than avowed enemies...they divide the minds, destroy unity, weaken strengths that, instead, should be all together coordinated against the enemy...You will be told that it is you who cause division, but it is not possible to divide when one abides in the Truth...those who divide are those who try to diminish the Truth in order to find agreement with everyone...Those who have it wrong must convert to the Truth and should not try to find common grounds between Truth and error..." (Abp. Lefebvre, Spiritual Conference, Econe, Jan. 1974).

The fact is that the Archbishop was a human being, and an incredibly holy one. He always sought to see the best in people, and the same went for Rome and the newpopes. For decades, he held out hope that things would get better, as any Catholic should have done. Once it became apparent, particularly at Assisi, that the Romans were interested primarily in smashing the First Commandment and making war on the Faith, the Archbishop realized that collaboration would be impossible. 

Justifying the relentless pursuit of an agreement by using the Archbishop's careful negotiations throughout the 70s and 80s is capitalizing on his good will. He was a man of good will, but also smart enough to recognize that by 1988, the gulf between the newchurch and the Society was so large that an agreement was simply not possible, even if offered carte blanche, doctrinal conditions aside. The argument that the Society is just fine simply because they're doing what the Archbishop did is unacceptable.

The archbishop was testing the waters throughout the 1970s. Assisi hadn't happened yet, and a bunch of other events hadn't taken place. The circuмstances were a little different. The were still (a few) cardinals and bishops who seemed genuinely sympathetic towards tradition. These cardinals died, or simply changed their positions, and the newpopes continued their destruction of the Church. I'm sorry, but your argument is very disengenuous, and again, demonstrates that you don't really understand what the Archbishop was about. 

'Oh, Archbishop Lefebvre met with rome in the 1970s so therefore the Society has the obligation to resume negotiations in 2019' is the epitome of wishful thinking. 


'Oh, Archbishop Lefebvre met with rome in the 1970s so therefore the Society has the obligation to resume negotiations in 2019' is the epitome of wishful thinking.

It's also the epitome of modernism. True Catholic Faith teaches us that the only true unity is unity in doctrine. Modernists think we can create heaven on earth by getting along and agreeing to disagree. That's exactly the point of a practical agreement. Pure modernism. It sounds nice but that's about as profound as it gets. It's completely illogical underneath.

Online Ladislaus

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This is a very dangerous way of thinking. Don't forget that we're talking about doctrine here. To suggest that the Society is spiritually and doctrinally sound simply because they're building fancy new seminaries and big chapels is flat out wrong.

Glad you raised this point.  You may have missed the earlier thread where I called him out for PRECISELY THIS.  I asked him, given his theological positions, what reason does he have of being with the SSPX rather than in full communion with Rome in the FSSP?  I told him that he would have to have serious theological reasons, reasons of conscience, to justify this to absolve him from schism.  His answer then was the same, that it was essentially due to the size of the SSPX's seminary.