Author Topic: Schiavo Revisited  (Read 6814 times)

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Offline SJB

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Schiavo Revisited
« on: January 29, 2011, 11:45:57 PM »
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  • Link to the article, Schiavo Revisited:

    http://vovwatch.com/people/cekada/schiavorevisited.htm

    I discovered this letter written by Fr. Cekada and posted on FreeRepublic back in 2005, and it is shockingly arrogant and cold.

    Quote from: Fr. Cekada
    Dear Cathy,

    Bishop Sanborn is doing something on the Honorius/Liberius question. I'll forward it to you when it's completed.

    As regards your comments on the Schiavo case:

    1. In the quote, Pius XII enunciated the general moral principles to be applied, not merely particular ones applicable only to the narrow question of resuscitation.

    Otherwise, you would have to maintain that his statements like "Normally one is held to use only ordinary means" or "life, health, all temporal activities are in fact subordinated to spiritual ends" apply only to the specific case of resuscitation, and that in other cases therefore: a) One is not held to use even ordinary means to preserve life and b) Life is not subordinated to spiritual ends.

    Good luck.

    2. The expense of Terri Schiavo's maintenance was "socialized" through wealth redistribution ‹ $750,000 via the litigation/insurance company shakedown, and other hidden costs we can only guess at via tax and other insurance subsidies.

    (This should be obvious to anyone with the last name Brueggemann.)

    Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers were very generous in spending everyone else's money.

    Such expense is a grave burden on society, and as such falls within the definition of "extraordinary means." There is accordingly no moral obligation to continue it.

    3. A wicked husband still maintains his headship over the wife before God and his "domestic and paternal authority."

    He has the right to say yes or no to ice chips and Jello, unless and until an ecclesiastical or civil court, for a grave and just reason, legitimately impedes him from exercising his right.

    Compromise on that principle, and the family is toast.

    4. Finally, the larger problem I see is that lay traditionalists like you are trying to turn something into a mortal sin that isn't.

    You have no business doing so. You don't have the training in moral theology that priests have, and you certainly don't have the confessional experience we do in applying moral principles.

    But this doesn't stop you from boldly expressing your "opinion" on the moral issues in the Schiavo case, because in the practical order you simply cannot accept the fact that a priest probably knows a lot more that you do about certain subjects ‹ chief among them, moral theology.

    I am supposed to make the distinctions for you between right and wrong, because I have the training, the sacramental graces and the experience to do so.

    But because do not have the humility to recognize this in practice, you will go on endlessly arguing for your "opinion," rendering exchanges like this a waste of the priest's time, and in the process, I fear, turning traditional Catholics into members of the Church of Lay Opinion.

    Be assured of my prayers.

    Yours in Christ,

    Father Cekada


    Now here is a FreeRepublic  poster who buys Fr. Cekada’s analysis because Father is “a priest and Seminary teacher” and somehow these  “credentials” disallow any questioning of his analysis.

    Quote from: FreeRepublic poster
    “Now, I do not personally know Fr. Cekada. Being a sedevacantist myself, I do know of him. Having said that, however, please know that my defense of Fr. Cekada has more to do with an injustice I believe is being done to the man, rather than a defense of "one of my own." A good priest is being raked (unfairly) over the coals here and its being done - ironically - in the name of defending the true teachings of the Catholic Church. And, yet, it is Fr. Cekada's credentials as a priest and Seminary teacher that make him far more qualified in presenting the Church's teachings, than say, Grey Ghost II, Cereus, breakers, and TAdams to name a few.  Frankly, if you prefer your Moral Theology served up ala the style of these fine folks, then you certainly can't be serious about learning what the Church's true teaching is on preserving life.”


    Now here is a poster on another forum who makes a very interesting point about the imprudence of Fr. Cekada's remarks and the real scandal they caused:

    Quote
    What Fr. Cekada was attempting to do, if I understood him, was defend Catholic truth against liberal distortions, without fully analyzing the entire case for all possible moral failures. That remains an accurate comment on Mr Tribbe's efforts, but I see now why Fr. Cekada's intervention produced such a reaction - he did not limit himself to the point of moral theology mentioned - he said in his original intervention:

    Quote from: Fr. Cekada
    "Many traditional and "conservative" Catholics were misled by unprincipled politicians and pseudo-conservative talk-show hosts into thinking of it as a pro-life or anti-euthanasia case.

    It was no such thing...


    That (the above) was a judgement about the entire case, not merely about the question of "extraordinary means." People who were convinced that Mrs. Schiavo could swallow without assistance, for example, would therefore have been outraged by that judgement, because it rashly (and in their judgement, inaccurately) narrowed the case down to a question of the continuance of extraordinary intervention.

    I have also learned from the text of Fr. Joseph McFadden, and it is really very instructive to have witnessed the enormous scandal taken from this case by various parties and then to see what this moralist wrote about that point so many years ago.

    Quote from: Fr. McFadden
    In actual medical practice, however, I would be very much opposed to any cessation of intravenous feeding in the above case. The fact that this form of nourishment has already been in use in this case necessitates a different outlook on the problem. First, the danger of scandal would be very real: members of a family who know that their loved one is expected to live several weeks and who then witness the withdrawal of nourishment, followed by death within a day, would almost surely believe that the patient had been deliberately killed in order to avert further suffering.

    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #1 on: January 30, 2011, 06:55:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ebony and Ira Knee
    Finally, the larger problem I see is that lay traditionalists like you are trying to turn something into a mortal sin that isn't.


    This is precisely what the VoV, Fr. C in particular, have done with the "una cum" issue.
    + Vincit veritas +


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #2 on: January 30, 2011, 07:02:31 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ira Knee in Ebony
    The expense of Terri Schiavo's maintenance was "socialized" through wealth redistribution ‹ $750,000 via the litigation/insurance company shakedown, and other hidden costs we can only guess at via tax and other insurance subsidies.

    (This should be obvious to anyone with the last name Brueggemann.)


    Did the colossally-arrogant Fr C ask this question before or after the VoV performed their own shakedown and "redistributed" $750,000 from the Brueggemanns' pockets into their own, silk-lined coffers?
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 05:08:04 PM »
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  • Bump diddy, bump, bump...

    bump, bump!
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 05:12:02 PM »
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  • Ugh!

    THIS MAKES ME SO ANGRY!

    Thanks for showing this again!
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


    Offline the smart sheep

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 07:00:17 PM »
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  • WHAT THE  :cussing:

    Oh a Narcissistic sociopath defending a Narcissistic psychopath (these are actual  direct murders).

    No surprise here.

    sheep

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 07:24:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Link to the article, Schiavo Revisited:

    http://vovwatch.com/people/cekada/schiavorevisited.htm

    I discovered this letter written by Fr. Cekada and posted on FreeRepublic back in 2005, and it is shockingly arrogant and cold.









    Yet you worked for Fr. Cekada at St. Clare's for another 4 years or more, until he

    sold the chapel.  

    Fr. Ramolla has the problems sorted out, Bernie Hall got to finally become a

    priest, Immaculate Conception got a boost from the scandals.

    And seriously, the Vutures of Vaudeville website reads like a bunch of witches

    with OCD, poring over minutiae, taking scandal.  It imitates those whom it hates.


    Let it go for the love of God and your immortal souls.  






    Offline the smart sheep

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #7 on: July 08, 2011, 07:38:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth

    Let it go for the love of God and your immortal souls.  



    I disagree, shedding light on these vampires is exactly what needs to happen. These vile people are on the constant look out for new sources (victims).

    For the love of God and your immortal souls, warn the newbies and chase the vampires back to their caves.

    sheep


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #8 on: July 10, 2011, 04:15:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: the smart sheep
    Quote from: Elizabeth

    Let it go for the love of God and your immortal souls.  



    I disagree, shedding light on these vampires is exactly what needs to happen. These vile people are on the constant look out for new sources (victims).

    For the love of God and your immortal souls, warn the newbies and chase the vampires back to their caves.

    sheep


      The Vipers of Vaudeville website reads 100% GAY, all about hissy fits and cat-fights.  

       The VoV watch website is all anonymous.  Why so secretive?  How would anybody be able to determine what the true agenda of that website is?

    How does that website bring souls to Our Holy Redeemer and His Blessed Mother?  

    I thought Our Lady is supposed to crush the head of the serpent with her heel.  The site is filled with pictures of snakes, and pages of bitchy gossip.  

    It mimics what it claims to oppose.

     


    Offline SJB

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #9 on: July 10, 2011, 04:59:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: SJB
    Link to the article, Schiavo Revisited:

    http://vovwatch.com/people/cekada/schiavorevisited.htm

    I discovered this letter written by Fr. Cekada and posted on FreeRepublic back in 2005, and it is shockingly arrogant and cold.


    Yet you worked for Fr. Cekada at St. Clare's for another 4 years or more, until he sold the chapel.  

    Fr. Ramolla has the problems sorted out, Bernie Hall got to finally become a

    priest, Immaculate Conception got a boost from the scandals.

    And seriously, the Vutures of Vaudeville website reads like a bunch of witches

    with OCD, poring over minutiae, taking scandal.  It imitates those whom it hates.


    Let it go for the love of God and your immortal souls.


    You have the facts wrong. I actually spend very little time "poring over minutia" and "taking scandal." I'm not sure what it is that you want me to "let go."

    You have my number. Call me if you're truly concerned.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline the smart sheep

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #10 on: July 10, 2011, 06:02:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: the smart sheep
    Quote from: Elizabeth

    Let it go for the love of God and your immortal souls.  



    I disagree, shedding light on these vampires is exactly what needs to happen. These vile people are on the constant look out for new sources (victims).

    For the love of God and your immortal souls, warn the newbies and chase the vampires back to their caves.

    sheep


      The Vipers of Vaudeville website reads 100% GAY, all about hissy fits and cat-fights.  

       The VoV watch website is all anonymous.  Why so secretive?  How would anybody be able to determine what the true agenda of that website is?

    How does that website bring souls to Our Holy Redeemer and His Blessed Mother?  

    I thought Our Lady is supposed to crush the head of the serpent with her heel.  The site is filled with pictures of snakes, and pages of bitchy gossip.  

    It mimics what it claims to oppose
    .
     



     
    I have been out in the secular world for a long time, so I could be wrong, but I do not see where this website is gay.

    I find the website informative. True agenda? Well, How am I suppose to know anyone's agenda if I am not given both sides? Or another view?

    I will confess I have a lot to learn of what Our Lady desires. Its one reason I came to the forum and why I am making the leap to Traditional Mass. So, as for now, I see the website showing the very serpents she will crush.

    "It mimics what it claims to oppose". One way to shed light on Narcissistic Sociopaths is to mirror them.

    Unfortunately, I have seen families being tortured by and torn apart by Narcissistic Soc. So, I am lending my support in protecting the TRUTH in the only way I know how. Protecting the TRUTH protects the very souls I am responsible for.

    With Our Lady's help and the True Sacrifice of the Mass I maybe view things differently later.

     Since I am new to this Trad world I appreciate knowing who's who in the zoo, and where I can find a safe Church.

    If I am wrong I with this view I would certainly appreciate some wisdom.

    sheep


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #11 on: July 10, 2011, 11:19:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: SJB
    Link to the article, Schiavo Revisited:

    http://vovwatch.com/people/cekada/schiavorevisited.htm

    I discovered this letter written by Fr. Cekada and posted on FreeRepublic back in 2005, and it is shockingly arrogant and cold.


    Yet you worked for Fr. Cekada at St. Clare's for another 4 years or more, until he sold the chapel.  

    Fr. Ramolla has the problems sorted out, Bernie Hall got to finally become a

    priest, Immaculate Conception got a boost from the scandals.

    And seriously, the Vutures of Vaudeville website reads like a bunch of witches

    with OCD, poring over minutiae, taking scandal.  It imitates those whom it hates.


    Let it go for the love of God and your immortal souls.


    You have the facts wrong. I actually spend very little time "poring over minutia" and "taking scandal." I'm not sure what it is that you want me to "let go."

    You have my number. Call me if you're truly concerned.


    It is not clear if VoV Watch is your website from your post here, or if not, why you read such trash.  

    Clearly, nobody wishes to sign his name to the VoV site, or say where he attends Mass, or what his exact history with the clergy, Mass centers or seminarians is.  No Catholic priest endorses this website, and only gay ones would enjoy it.

    It's trashy and it will not save anyone's soul, or alert anyone to any danger.  It will likely engender compassion.  Many will become more firmly convinced of the holiness due to the attacking website, VoV Watch.

    I saw that list of 6 seminarians called "The Viperene Brood".  Now somebody please tell me how such a list, in the context of being called snakes, is helpful to any person's soul.  It will only make them more stubborn if anything---that is presuming they are snakes.  

    I do not have your number, but calling or not calling you has nothing to do with concern.  I have offered you an Our Father.






    Offline Elizabeth

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #12 on: July 10, 2011, 11:43:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: the smart sheep


     


    "It mimics what it claims to oppose". One way to shed light on Narcissistic Sociopaths is to mirror them.






    St. Thomas Aquinus taught us that we may not do evil that good will follow.  

    I sincerely hope you find a safe church, Sheep.


    Offline SJB

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #13 on: July 11, 2011, 08:19:22 AM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    It is not clear if VoV Watch is your website from your post here, or if not, why you read such trash.
     

    I do not have a website nor a blog and I spend a minimal amount of time posting here.

    Quote from: Elizabeth
    Clearly, nobody wishes to sign his name to the VoV site, or say where he attends Mass, or what his exact history with the clergy, Mass centers or seminarians is.  No Catholic priest endorses this website, and only gay ones would enjoy it.


    No Catholic priest endorses THIS website. Why are you here?

    Quote
    It's trashy and it will not save anyone's soul, or alert anyone to any danger.  It will likely engender compassion.  Many will become more firmly convinced of the holiness due to the attacking website, VoV Watch.


    The subject matter is trashy. I just don't agree with your assessment.

    Quote from: Elizabeth
    I saw that list of 6 seminarians called "The Viperene Brood".  Now somebody please tell me how such a list, in the context of being called snakes, is helpful to any person's soul.  It will only make them more stubborn if anything---that is presuming they are snakes.
     

    How did speaking out against Fr. Cekada during the Schiavo case "help anyone's soul." Did it make him "more stubborn?" The fact is "stubbornness" is NOT the problem here or back then.

    Quote from: Elizabeth
    I do not have your number, but calling or not calling you has nothing to do with concern.  I have offered you an Our Father.


    Why tell me this? If you don't need to call me to offer your opinion, why are you saying anything here?

    Prayers are always appreciated. Thank you.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Schiavo Revisited
    « Reply #14 on: July 11, 2011, 10:13:53 AM »
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  • SJB-

    All the evasions in the world won't change  VoV watch from being flaming GAY.  It is affected, effeminate and bitchy.   Of course you are welcome to disagree with my opinion of it.  All  who have told me that you are involved/endorse this crap have been begged by me to let it go.


    I am merely pointing out that you started this thread to bring up the Schiavo tragedy, but the fact is you stayed on working for Fr. Cekada at St. Clare's long after Terri was murdered.

     BTW, Matthew is not hiding who he is and what he is about on this website, is he?   Why are the anti Vipers so shy about saying who they are if the purpose is to tell the "Unvarnished Truth"?
















     

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