Author Topic: Le Figaro - "Rome and cne on the verge of reaching an agreement" ! (Read 1525 times)

stevusmagnus · « **on:** April 13, 2012, 02:59:11 PM »

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/04/urgentfor-record-le-figaro-rome-and.html

From French daily Le Figaro, in an article signed by its main religion correspondent, Jean-Marie Guénois:

Rome and Écône on the verge of reaching an agreement
by Jean-Marie Guénois

Updated on April 13, 2012 20:37 (1837 GMT)| published April 13, 2012 19:45 (1745 GMT)

[Being translated at this moment - update for text]

The signing of a docuмent establishing the relations between the Holy See and the disciples of Abp. Lefebvre is a matter of days.

Officially, the Vatican awaits the response of Bp. Bernard Fellay, the chief of the Lefebvrists. As soon as it is received in Rome - "it is a matter of days, and no longer of weeks", - it will be immediately examined. If it conforms to expectations, the Holy See will very quickly announce a historic agreement with this group of faithful, known under the name of "integrists".

But unofficially, and with the greatest discretion, emissaries have worked, from both sides, to "reach an agreement". In the past few weeks, the final adjustments have been concluded between Rome and Écône in order to better respond to the demands of "clarifications" asked for by the Vatican last March 16.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2012, 03:14:40 PM »

A very delicate negotiation

It is thus that the final response of Bp. Fellay, very well pondered and well prepared, should settle - this time, for good - a very delicate negotiation which was relaunched by Benedict XVI following his election, in 2005.

The "Ecclesia Dei" commission, sheltered within the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the most important ministry in the Vatican, is in charge of this dossier. But it is also, at this point, personally followed by Benedict XVI. And he wants an agreement.
Which allows for the consideration, by well informed persons, that a positive outcome will truly come into being. Even at the cost of the permanence of profound disagreements regarding the Second Vatican Council.

Disagreements completely accepted, besides, by the Pope. He has placed his pontificate under this line of reinterpretation of the Vatican II Council. Following two axes: emptying the spirit of "rupture" of '68 and avoiding opposition between the highest tradition of the Church and modernity.

Fifty years of opposition

On Monday, Benedict XVI will reach 85. He is tired. His entourage do not hide this. He has had to rest this week in Castel Gandolfo from his exhausting voyage to Mexico and Cuba, then from the long services of Holy Week. He should be back in the Vatican on Friday evening. As a priority on his bureau: this decision on the Lefebvrist affair. It will be one of the weightiest of the pontificate.

For fifty years, the Lefebrvists have stood in opposition to the Holy See regarding Vatican II. And in formal juridical rupture since June 1988, when Abp. Marcel Lefebvre ordained four bishops despite the Pope's interdict.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2012, 03:23:16 PM »

Joseph Ratzinger was placed at the time by John Paul II in charge of the negotiations with the rebellious bishop. He has never accepted that failure. Nor, once having become the Pope, the prospect of an enduring schism in the Church.

Benedict XVI compels the Church to reconcile with herself

One after the other, Benedict XVI has demolished, with all his papal authority, the obstacles that prevented a full reconciliation with the disciples of Abp. Marcel Lefebvre.

And, if a final agreement is announced in the upcoming days, the essential part of the work was already put in place by this pope:

- The reestablishment in 2007 - as an "extraordinary" rite of the Catholic Church - of the Mass celebrated in Latin, that is, according to the Missal of John XXIII in force before the Council.

-The removal, in 2009, of the excommunications which fell on the four bishops ordained by Abp. Lefebvre.

-The launch of the doctrinal discussions between the Holy See and the Fraternity of Saint Pius X, in that same year, regarding the Second Vatican Council

The apparent failure of the latter, one year ago, had given the impression of a complete failure of the negotiation.

The doctrinal disagreement between the Lefebvrists and Rome regarding the Second Vatican Council was effectively abyssal. But it had been forgotten that the object of those conversations was not finding an agreement, but establishing the list of divergences and of their reasons.

Exilenomore · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2012, 05:02:24 PM »

I hope that Écône will not allow itself to be lured into some kind of false guilt for demanding that the men of the new order make a profession of the true faith and formally reject error. It is they who have been the disturbers of Catholic unity for decades now, and now they are blaming the sheep for having fled from the wolves. Let us pray that Écône may not fall into this trap, otherwise another stronghold will have fallen.

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** April 14, 2012, 11:42:07 AM »

You gotta love the "label" they've given us true Catholics -- "integrists"

As if it's more normal and expected to live a schizoid life, where religion says one thing and your daily life says another...

Yes, excuse me for wanting my life to be coherent and whole...

Unfortunately for the cause of truth, most people don't think, and don't know what many words mean.

Do you know what Integral means?

Definition of INTEGRAL

1 a : essential to completeness : constituent <an integral part of the curriculum>
c : formed as a unit with another part <a seat with integral headrest>
2: composed of constituent parts
3: lacking nothing essential : entire

So-called "Integrists" believe their daily life should be in harmony with their Catholic beliefs. Also, they believe that the Faith believed and practiced today should have a certain unity with the Faith believed and practiced hundreds of years ago. We believe the Cure of Ars, if he came back to life today, shouldn't be shocked to enter our church and think he entered a protestant meeting place.

We can't have any of that, now, can we!

Telesphorus · « **Reply #5 on:** April 14, 2012, 09:04:30 PM »

Quote

The doctrinal disagreement between the Lefebvrists and Rome regarding the Second Vatican Council was effectively abyssal. But it had been forgotten that the object of those conversations was not finding an agreement, but establishing the list of divergences and of their reasons.

Really? There was no intention of finding agreement?

How can there be unity of Faith without agreement?

Sigismund · « **Reply #6 on:** April 14, 2012, 09:29:38 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

You gotta love the "label" they've given us true Catholics -- "integrists"

As if it's more normal and expected to live a schizoid life, where religion says one thing and your daily life says another...

Yes, excuse me for wanting my life to be coherent and whole...

Unfortunately for the cause of truth, most people don't think, and don't know what many words mean.

Do you know what Integral means?

Definition of INTEGRAL

1 a : essential to completeness : constituent <an integral part of the curriculum>
c : formed as a unit with another part <a seat with integral headrest>
2: composed of constituent parts
3: lacking nothing essential : entire

So-called "Integrists" believe their daily life should be in harmony with their Catholic beliefs. Also, they believe that the Faith believed and practiced today should have a certain unity with the Faith believed and practiced hundreds of years ago. We believe the Cure of Ars, if he came back to life today, shouldn't be shocked to enter our church and think he entered a protestant meeting place.

We can't have any of that, now, can we!

It's more likely he would think he entered a post office.

Exilenomore · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2012, 02:00:33 PM »

It is interesting to note that already during the time before the revolt, Catholics who were faithful to the magisterium and who thus opposed modernism were already being called 'integralists' by the modernists.

So the ones who apply that epithet to Catholics who oppose them now should ask themselves what that makes them.

Sede Catholic · « **Reply #8 on:** May 10, 2012, 12:36:21 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

You gotta love the "label" they've given us true Catholics -- "integrists"

As if it's more normal and expected to live a schizoid life, where religion says one thing and your daily life says another...

Yes, excuse me for wanting my life to be coherent and whole...

Unfortunately for the cause of truth, most people don't think, and don't know what many words mean.

Do you know what Integral means?

Definition of INTEGRAL

1 a : essential to completeness : constituent <an integral part of the curriculum>
c : formed as a unit with another part <a seat with integral headrest>
2: composed of constituent parts
3: lacking nothing essential : entire

So-called "Integrists" believe their daily life should be in harmony with their Catholic beliefs. Also, they believe that the Faith believed and practiced today should have a certain unity with the Faith believed and practiced hundreds of years ago. We believe the Cure of Ars, if he came back to life today, shouldn't be shocked to enter our church and think he entered a protestant meeting place.

We can't have any of that, now, can we!

Quote

So-called "Integrists" believe their daily life should be in harmony with their Catholic beliefs. Also, they believe that the Faith believed and practiced today should have a certain unity with the Faith believed and practiced hundreds of years ago.

Yes, they seek to brand us with some weird label because they cannot argue with us on the facts.

So-called "Integrists" are those of us who believe in accordance with the Faith of our fathers.

What a badge of honour it is to be in that little band.