Author Topic: Schiavo Again  (Read 6964 times)

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Offline JohnChrysostom

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Schiavo Again
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2012, 11:28:32 AM »
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  • If this is not a machine, than I dont know what a machine is.

    'A Machine is a tool consisting of one or more parts that is constructed to achieve a particular goal. Machines are powered devices, usually mechanically.'






    'A persistent Vegetative state is a disorder of consciousness in which patients with severe brain damage are in a state of partial arousal rather than true awareness.
    It is a diagnosis of some uncertainty in that it deals with a syndrome. After four weeks in a vegetative state (VS), the patient is classified as in a persistent vegetative state. This diagnosis is classified as a permanent vegetative state (PVS) after approximately 1 year of being in a vegetative state.'[1]




    Offline SJB

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #61 on: April 23, 2012, 11:58:55 AM »
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  • Quote from: Cupertino
    Quote from: On April 20th, SJB
    I am answering you, Cupertino, on a discussion forum. This issue has been discussed before in detail (much like the feeneyite discussions) and then you pop in and defend the indefensible. Then you whine when we call you on it.

    If you want to defend Fr. Cekada's scandalous position (and behavior) on this issue, then expect to be challenged.


    Likewise, expect to be challenged.

    Now, what do you say, SJB, to the question whether Terry Schiavo was capable (without any artificial means of tube feeding), of getting enough hydration per day to prevent inevitable dehydration, as well as enough nutrition?

    Yes, No, or "I don't know"?

    If "Yes", give support for what you say.



    Quote from: Fr. Iscara
    To counter these conclusions, we are convinced that the provision of food and fluids is not simply —or strictly — "medical care," but the minimum care that must be provided for the sick, whatever their medical condition. All beings need food and water to live, but such nourishment by itself does not heal or cure disease. In consequence, to stop feeding the permanently unconscious patient is not to withdraw from the battle against illness, but simply to withhold the nourishment that sustains all life.

    Moreover, to withdraw the artificial provision of food and fluids is not simply "to allow the patient to die" : what we are doing is not to cease a treatment against disease, but to withdraw what is essential to sustain the life of every human being, either healthy or ill. Death will happen, not because of the illness, but because of our omission to provide adequate nutrition and hydration.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil


    Offline SJB

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #62 on: April 23, 2012, 12:07:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: Crazy Usher John
    You still defy me ...


    Who writes like this other than a delusional person?
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline SJB

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #63 on: April 23, 2012, 12:56:41 PM »
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  • From Fr. Stephanich, The Four Marks, 2008
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Canute

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #64 on: April 23, 2012, 01:07:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: Cupertino
    Quote from: On April 20th, SJB
    I am answering you, Cupertino, on a discussion forum. This issue has been discussed before in detail (much like the feeneyite discussions) and then you pop in and defend the indefensible. Then you whine when we call you on it.

    If you want to defend Fr. Cekada's scandalous position (and behavior) on this issue, then expect to be challenged.


    Likewise, expect to be challenged.

    Now, what do you say, SJB, to the question whether Terry Schiavo was capable (without any artificial means of tube feeding), of getting enough hydration per day to prevent inevitable dehydration, as well as enough nutrition?

    Yes, No, or "I don't know"?

    If "Yes", give support for what you say.



    Quote from: Fr. Iscara
    To counter these conclusions, we are convinced that the provision of food and fluids is not simply —or strictly — "medical care," but the minimum care that must be provided for the sick, whatever their medical condition. All beings need food and water to live, but such nourishment by itself does not heal or cure disease. In consequence, to stop feeding the permanently unconscious patient is not to withdraw from the battle against illness, but simply to withhold the nourishment that sustains all life.

    Moreover, to withdraw the artificial provision of food and fluids is not simply "to allow the patient to die" : what we are doing is not to cease a treatment against disease, but to withdraw what is essential to sustain the life of every human being, either healthy or ill. Death will happen, not because of the illness, but because of our omission to provide adequate nutrition and hydration.


    SBJ's quote does not answer Cupertino's question. It only tells us what Fr. Iscara is "convinced" of.

    To repeat:

    "Now, what do you say, SJB, to the question whether Terry Schiavo was capable (without any artificial means of tube feeding), of getting enough hydration per day to prevent inevitable dehydration, as well as enough nutrition?"


    Offline Canute

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #65 on: April 23, 2012, 01:16:17 PM »
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  • And SJB's article from Fr. Martin Stepanich doesn't address Cupertino's question either:

    Quote from: Cupertino

    "whether Terry Schiavo was capable (without any artificial means of tube feeding), of getting enough hydration per day to prevent inevitable dehydration, as well as enough nutrition?"

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #66 on: April 23, 2012, 01:18:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    From Fr. Stephanich, The Four Marks, 2008


    While Fr. Stepanich's training alone does not necessarily make him correct, there can be no doubt that his training is immeasurably superior to that of Fr C (which is not necessarily Fr C's fault, considering the insanity of the post-V2 era).  I only mention this because JC, whose tongue and its endless offerings are more akin to Fool's Gold than the genuine article, seems to think that being trained at Econe carries some kind of notable weight.  Even if we are so kindly-disposed as to grant that it does, that weight, compared to Fr. Stepanich's, would be like a small rock compared to Mont Blanc.
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline JohnChrysostom

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #67 on: April 23, 2012, 01:26:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Quote from: SJB
    From Fr. Stephanich, The Four Marks, 2008


    While Fr. Stepanich's training alone does not necessarily make him correct, there can be no doubt that his training is immeasurably superior to that of Fr C (which is not necessarily Fr C's fault, considering the insanity of the post-V2 era).  I only mention this because JC, whose tongue and its endless offerings are more akin to Fool's Gold than the genuine article, seems to think that being trained at Econe carries some kind of notable weight.  Even if we are so kindly-disposed as to grant that it does, that weight, compared to Fr. Stepanich's, would be like a small rock compared to Mont Blanc.


    And what?
    That you as a layman and Seminary dropout,  are somehow more qualified than a trained Priest, Canon Law expert and theologian?



    The Schiavo case was very sad.  All of us had emotions with her plight and lifes ending.

    But again, no one, not even you,  will address the fact, after 8 attempts of mine, as to Why ANYONE would betray Ms Schiavos wishes to NOT be assisted at Life through Artificial Machinery, and telling/giving this Directive to 3 Seperate Family Members.

    Machinery that is mechanical and powered by electronics and electricity.



    If that was her wish, why would you or anyone seek to betray it?
    Maybe I  shouldnt ask YOU that question though.


     


    Offline Canute

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #68 on: April 23, 2012, 01:31:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Quote from: SJB
    From Fr. Stephanich, The Four Marks, 2008


    While Fr. Stepanich's training alone does not necessarily make him correct, there can be no doubt that his training is immeasurably superior to that of Fr C (which is not necessarily Fr C's fault, considering the insanity of the post-V2 era).  I only mention this because JC, whose tongue and its endless offerings are more akin to Fool's Gold than the genuine article, seems to think that being trained at Econe carries some kind of notable weight.  Even if we are so kindly-disposed as to grant that it does, that weight, compared to Fr. Stepanich's, would be like a small rock compared to Mont Blanc.

    My point is that the quote from Fr. Stepanich posted by SJB doesn't address the exact question that Cupertino asked:

    "Whether Terry Schiavo was capable (without any artificial means of tube feeding), of getting enough hydration per day to prevent inevitable dehydration, as well as enough nutrition?"

    Cupertino may be on to something very important there.

    Offline SJB

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #69 on: April 23, 2012, 01:32:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Crazy John
    Machinery that is mechanical and powered by electronics and electricity.


    Are you Amish? Anyway, I've never heard of machinery that isn't "mechanical," as even an Amish sawmill is a "machine" that is "mechanical."

    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #70 on: April 23, 2012, 01:38:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Canute
    My point is that the quote from Fr. Stepanich posted by SJB doesn't address the exact question that Cupertino asked:


    I understand and understood your point.  I was making a separate point, not responding to your own.  No biggie...

    Quote
    Cupertino may be on to something very important there.


    He may be.  I suppose it is possible that we will all find out as things progress.
    + Vincit veritas +


    Offline SJB

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #71 on: April 23, 2012, 03:41:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cupertino
    Quote from: Canute
    To repeat:

    "Now, what do you say, SJB, to the question whether Terry Schiavo was capable (without any artificial means of tube feeding), of getting enough hydration per day to prevent inevitable dehydration, as well as enough nutrition?"


    Indeed.


    Your question is directed at what Raoul76 said. Ask him to explain it.

    Now the very strange JohnC character has quoted Fr. Iscara (not understanding what he was quoting, apparently), and here he is once again:

    Quote from: Fr. Iscara
    To counter these conclusions, we are convinced that the provision of food and fluids is not simply —or strictly — "medical care," but the minimum care that must be provided for the sick, whatever their medical condition. All beings need food and water to live, but such nourishment by itself does not heal or cure disease. In consequence, to stop feeding the permanently unconscious patient is not to withdraw from the battle against illness, but simply to withhold the nourishment that sustains all life.

    Moreover, to withdraw the artificial provision of food and fluids is not simply "to allow the patient to die" : what we are doing is not to cease a treatment against disease, but to withdraw what is essential to sustain the life of every human being, either healthy or ill. Death will happen, not because of the illness, but because of our omission to provide adequate nutrition and hydration.


    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline SJB

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #72 on: April 23, 2012, 03:53:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cupertino
    Quote from: SJB
    Your question is directed at what Raoul76 said. Ask him to explain it.


    If that is your true conviction, then fine, why don't you follow through with it, since in another thread I directed the equivalent to you!


    I don't need to explain things I didn't say. It's irrelevant anyway.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Sede Catholic

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #73 on: April 23, 2012, 06:02:51 PM »
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  • It has been falsely claimed on here by the poster calling himself John that Terri Schiavo's brother claimed she

    wanted to not have such treatment.

    This is untrue.

    Terri's brother DID NOT SAY THIS.

    http://www.terrisfight.org/terri-s-wish/

    Quote
    Judge Greer dismisses testimony of Terri's parents, siblings, Terri's life-long girlfriend and closest friend in Florida, all testifying that Terri never made any statements regarding situations if she were to become disabled


    Terri's brother Bobby and Terri's sister Suzanne are both FULL TIME pro life workers.

    That is what they spend their lives doing:

    http://www.terrisfight.org/meet-terri-s-family-2/



    Terri's parents and brother and sister were all ignored by the court, as you would expect in this evil age.



    Offline Sede Catholic

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    Schiavo Again
    « Reply #74 on: April 23, 2012, 06:49:52 PM »
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  • The poster John may have innocently made a mistake about this.

    He has posted many posts in a relatively brief period. So mistakes will occur.

    It may be a completely innocent mistake.



    I do not know who the poster John is in real life.



    I should not have phrased my post in a way that implied that the poster John had been dishonest.

    It may just be a mistake made by the poster John accidentally.  

    I apologize to you, John.


     

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