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Author Topic: Saw this posted at FE: Archbishop Piero Marini to be named Prefec for CDW  (Read 546 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

Offline Mithrandylan

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Saw this posted at FE: Archbishop Piero Marini to be named Prefec for CDW
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2013, 09:03:35 AM »
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  • Seems to be a rumor at this point, though one that is quite easy to see becoming a reality.

    He's a piece of work.  Another one of these wonderful NewChurch prelates who believes sodomites have a civil right to civil unions, just not one to marriage.
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    Offline ThomisticPhilosopher

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    Saw this posted at FE: Archbishop Piero Marini to be named Prefec for CDW
    « Reply #2 on: September 29, 2013, 03:15:03 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    Seems to be a rumor at this point, though one that is quite easy to see becoming a reality.

    He's a piece of work.  Another one of these wonderful NewChurch prelates who believes sodomites have a civil right to civil unions, just not one to marriage.

    I will let faggots speak for themselves its incredible how clear they understand subversive modernist doctrines. They are quite content with the progress the Conciliar Church has done. The European "Catholic" Episcopal conferences all of them really soon official stance will be support for civil unions. Some countries sadly enough are still lacking behind, but  :popcorn: stay tuned gentlemen.

     Catholic Cardinals, Bishops Evolving on Civil Unions, Gay Relationships
    April 12, 2013

    The Tablet has reported that in a public address this week at London’s National Gallery, Cardinal Christoph Schonborn of Vienna gave explicit support for legal recognition of same – sex relationships. In the closing line of the brief report, was a reference to two more cardinals who have recently said much the same thing. When I wrote briefly about this yesterday, I had been unable to track down any information on what Cardinal Salazar had said. Since then, Francis DeBenardo of New Ways Ministry has completed the job, locating a Spanish language report – and provided a useful translation:

        “There can be no true marriage but between a man and a woman, and only on this basis can there be a real family,” said Salazar, President of the [Colombian]Episcopal Conference, who said that it is not a personal position but of vision of the universal Church, reflected also in the Constitution. . . .

        ” ‘The other unions have a right to exist; no one can ask them not to exist, but they should not try to equate themselves with the family.  They should not assume the role of the family within the state, that’s where it starts to subvert the social order,’  Archbishop of Bogota also said and cautioned that these statements are not looking to attack the country’s gay community, much less violate their rights.”

    PUBLICIDAD ds Vida de hoy 'Las parejas homosexuales no pueden ser familia': Iglesia Por: REDACCIÓN VIDA DE HOY | 6:45 p.m. | 04 de Abril del 2013 Rubén Salazar, presidente de la Conferencia Episcopal.

    Cardinal Rubén Salazar, president of the Episcopal Conference of Colombia

    In his commentary, DeBenardo  notes that there could be some disappointment in the tone adopted by some of these men, and that support for civil unions is far from ideal – but it remains, nevertheless, important progress:

        While it is disappointing that many of these church leaders  support civil unions out of a desire to reserve marriage for only heterosexual couples, I think we need to keep this step forward in perspective.  We need to see it for what it is:  a step forward that was unthinkable a year ago.  More importantly, the fact this strategy of supporting civil unions was also endorsed by Pope Francis when he was Cardinal Bergoglio in Argentina makes it even more possible that this strategy can develop.

        Is hierarchical support for civil unions ideal?  No, especially not when it is a stopgap measure against marriage.  But none of us know how the Holy Spirit works, other than that even our imperfect ways can some times be used for good purposes.  Who knows what the Holy Spirit has in mind with this new trend?

    This analysis is spot on. Some of these words of “support” are grudging, as a lesser of two evils argument – others are more positive. But he is right that we need to see this in perspective. Grudging or not, the bishops have come a long way collectively. We need to remember that when Cardinal Schonborn remarked in April 2009 that it was time for the church in its considerations of homosexuality to move away from an obsessive concern with genital acts to a consideration of the quality of relationships, it was seen as radically new. His words attracted strong criticism in the conservative Catholic press (but not from the Vatican or other bishops).  He has since moved on, to explicit support for civil unions – and overtly expressed hostility to gay relationships, per se, appears to be a thing of the past. Just like the politicians who are evolving on gay marriage,  it’s clear that Catholic bishops are doing so too – if not yet on marriage, than certainly on civil unions and less formal relationships. To see just how far they’ve come, consider this list, showing only those for which I’ve seen reports on English language sites (and remember, Cardinal Bergoglio’s support for civil unions did not become widely known until after he became pope, and Cardinal Salazar’s words were not available in English until Francis DeBenardo went looking for them, and produced a translation).

        April 2013, Cardinal Schonborn of Vienna, (support for civil unions)
        April 2013, Cardinal Rubén Salazar of Bogota, Colombia (support for civil unions)
        March 2013, Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, retired archbishop of Washington (support for civil unions)
        Feb 2013, Archbishop Vincent Paglia, head of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for the Family (supported “legal protections” for same-sex relationships)
        Jan 2013, French Bishops’ Conference’s Family and Society Committee (support strengthened civil unions as alternative to full marriage)
        Dec 2012, Bishop Giuseppe Fiorini Morosini, Locri-Gerace diocese in Calabria (supported “legal protections” for same-sex relationships)
        May 2012, Cardinal Rainer Woelki of Berlin (support for same-sex relationships)
        March 2012, Diocese of New Hampshire (civil unions as alternative to full marriage)
        March 2012, Bishop Geoffrey Robinson (complete reform of all sexual doctrine)
        Feb 2012, Bishop Charles Scicluna of Malta  (support for same-sex relationships)
        Jan 2012, Bishop Pa0lo Urso of Ragusa, Italy (de facto support for civil unions)
        Nov 2011, Archbishop Vincent Nichols, Westminster (sees “value” in civil unions)
        July 2010,  Willie Walsh, the retiring Bishop of Killaloe (respect for same-sex relationships)
        ? 2010 Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis (civil unions as alternative to full marriage).
        June 2010 Bishop Januario Torgal Ferreira, Portuguese ordinariate for armed forces (support for same-sex relationships)June 2010
        June 2010 Bishop Francis A Quinn, retired bishop of Sacramento (complete reform of all sexual doctrine)
        April 2010 Cardinal Schonborn of Vienna, (support for same-sex relationships)
        Aug 2009 Portuguese Bishops, (civil unions as alternative to full marriage)

    Bishops are evolving, because Catholics are evolving.

    By now, it’s no longer news that American Catholics support full marriage equality, and overwhelmingly support at least civil unions. Polls also show that they no longer see same – sex relationships as even a matter of morality. Acceptance on the ground, in most local parishes, has been transformed over the last fifty years. In their expressions of support for legal recognition of our relationships, the bishops are doing no more than following where ordinary Catholics have been leading for years.

    Marriage equality continues to spread around the world (at least five countries are likely to approve legislation this year – Uruguay, Colombia, UK, France and New Zealand, as well as some US states). As more and more married same sex couples become visible in our parishes, bishops will continue to evolve.
    As bishops evolve, so will formal doctrine evolve.

    For now, there’s no sign of the shift in emphasis in practical, pastoral response to same – sex relationships or civil unions finding recognition in the formal documents of the church – but that too will come. Already, the public statements of the bishops listed above, and the private beliefs and practice of many others, is in conflict with the existing documents. Many professional theologians  (possibly most) know that the existing teaching on human sexuality is deeply flawed and needs fundamental revision.

    It is widely believed, and often claimed, that Catholic teaching does not and cannot change, but this is demonstrably false. Change is constant, even if slow. In just the past few years, we’ve seen two small nudges on contraception. First, Pope Benedict conceded that an HIV positive prostitute’s use of condoms to prevent infecting clients could be seen as a sign of some moral sense, and that was taken up by others to support their use within marriage, where one spouse is positive and the other not. More recently, the German bishops have approved the use of emergency contraception for rape victims. Both of these are very specific circumstances, and do not in any way indicate a wider endorsement of contraception –  but they undermine the idea that “every” sexual act must be open to procreation.

    It is my hope and expectation that the new mood in the Vatican will lead to a more favourable climate for frank discussion on a wide range of subjects, and that sexuality will be one of them. The Catholic Church will have no choice but to start treating LGBT people similarly to other Catholics living in contravention of current Vatican sexual rules. And that, considering the prohibitions on masturbation, sexual relationships before marriage, contraception,  and remarriage after divorce means practically all  who have passed puberty.

    In practice, teaching follows, rather than leading, Catholic belief: orthodoxy follows orthopraxis, and not the other way around.

    Change will simply have to come.

    This article of course has not updated some of the newer vocal support within the Conciliarist apostates.

     :pray: that those who are sincere wake up sooner rather then later. This is not a contest or competition between who was first. We must content with having had the grace to see what is going on, and thank God every single day by sincerely living according to His Holy laws. Miserere nostri, Domine. Miserere nostri... , has all my other verified accounts including PGP key plus BTC address for bitcoin tip jar. A.M.D.G.


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