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Offline stevusmagnus

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Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law
« on: September 11, 2010, 12:54:57 PM »
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  • http://www.independent.com/news/2010/sep/09/roman-catholic-rebels/

    Emphasis added.

    Roman Catholic Rebels

    Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law

    Thursday, September 9, 2010


    After working for the Roman Catholic Los Angeles Archdiocese for more than 20 years, Patricia Sandall’s call to the priesthood came gradually. She considered being ordained as a Protestant minister, but could not bring herself to convert to another religious tradition.

    “I [am] Roman Catholic to the bone,” said Sandall. “I could not leave my church.”

    But there alone was the problem. The Catholic Church levies its ultimate penalty, excommunication, on women who attempt to become priests.

    Right here in Santa Barbara, many devout women —including Catholic nuns, teachers, and professors — have acted against what they believe is unjust sexism by becoming a part of the Roman Catholic Womenpriests (RCWP) movement.

    RCWP is an international initiative, and its members spiritually prepare, ordain, and support people from all walks of life who are committed to an inclusive model of the Catholic Church and are called by the Holy Spirit to minister. They claim apostolic succession, the traditional Catholic belief in the spiritual and ecclesiastical power unbroken in the chain of ordinations stemming from the Apostles.

    In the United States, there are approximately five bishops, 47 priests, and 10 deacons ordained through RCWP, which requires that candidates receive a master’s degree in theology or divinity, go through psychological evaluations, take part in sacramental and spiritual direction, and stand up to a two- to three-year discernment period.

    Sandall’s calling was fulfilled on June 19 when she was ordained a priest at the Catholic Church of the Beatitudes. More than 200 enthusiastic people turned up to support her. Now as a priest, she will be serving on the pastoral staff at the Catholic Church of the Beatitudes while also being involved in RCWP administration.

    Sandall became the second Santa Barbara woman to be ordained through RCWP and will be joined by a third on September 12 with the ordination of a former nun, Jeannette Love. Love has been part of a Renewal Team that was trained — as decreed by Vatican II — to work within the community to help sisters transition to a more open community life. Love and her team had asked for liberties reportedly granted to them in Vatican II, but their requests were denied by the Superior General from Rome and Provincial Council. They were told to abide or leave.

    Gradually, each sister moved out on her own to continue to search out God’s will. After serving at the Catholic Apostolic Church of Antioch (not under Rome), Love began to explore her call within the RCWP community.

    “As I prepare for my ordination in September” said Love, “I feel that I stand in solidarity with many women who, down through the ages, were treated with injustice by the church and whose call to priesthood was never realized.”

    Sister Arlene Ellis, a retired nun not affiliated with the RCWP who was active within the ministry of the official Roman Catholic Church for 46 years, supported the women’s quest, saying, “I believe that there are women who are called to priesthood, and some of these women are Roman Catholics. In order to be true to that call, they must find another avenue for them to fulfill the yearning.”

    For both Sandall and Love, it took years of questioning, searching, and deep internal grief to face a call that could not be fulfilled within the institutional church. Because Rome is steadfast in its decision, it has lost the service of women teachers, professors, nuns, and spiritual directors who have dedicated a great deal of their lives to the institution. “Our call is to the church as the people of God rather than the call to the hierarchy,” said Suzanne Dunn, pastor of the Catholic Church of the Beatitudes.

    While these women have not been officially excommunicated, they have been deeply moved by the excommunication of RCWP’s founders and the church’s definitive punishment of those who support, ordain, or become women priests. They do not fear the threat of excommunication, but instead reject the Roman church’s declarative penalty.

    They ask why the church only chooses men when there are scholarly traces of ordained women in the early Roman Catholic Church. Scholars attest to the existence of both male and female apostles in the early church, and in Paul’s letter to the Romans, they say there is the reference to a deacon named Phoebe, workers named Prisca, Tryphena, and Tryphosa, and even an apostle named Junia.

    Interestingly, scholars have also cited papal letters to argue that there were, in fact, women ordinations in the first millennium. This speculation has caused a great deal of frustration, confusion, and pain within the church, and yet it cannot explain why after 2,000 years and under the direction of countless leaders there are no women ordained today.

    In response, the church demurs, saying it did not create the religion, but that it was given.

    “There were many women priestesses at the time of Christ,” said a local Catholic clergy member who requested anonymity. “Most pagan religious practices were quite accustomed to the idea. So, the fact that Christ choose 12 males as his apostles was no mere accident on his part. It was intentional and must therefore be acknowledged.”

    “Once one chooses to leave the church over the idea that a male priest is little more than a symbol of Christ,” he continued, “doesn’t it then also follow that the Eucharist is nothing more than a symbol? One cannot be separated from the other.”

    “Once one chooses to leave the church over the idea that a male priest is little more than a symbol of Christ,” he continued, “doesn’t it then also follow that the Eucharist is nothing more than a symbol? One cannot be separated from the other.” According to John Paul II, women and men are different but equal, and he argued that gender identity is symbolic of different responsibilities within the church.

    To address the issue of women’s ordination, the Vatican in 1976 called upon the Pontifical Biblical Commission, which declared that there was nothing in the scriptures that could be used to prove that women cannot be ordained. Despite this finding, the Congregation for the Defense of the Faith continues to uphold the decree.

    The women of RCWP have not only found the Catholic administration to be unjust in its consideration of women’s call to the priesthood, but they also strongly oppose the Church’s Canon Law 1024. The man-made law, which RCWP members hold to be discriminatory, states that, “only a baptized male validly receives sacred ordination.”

    “We are challenging this unjust law and want the entire Roman Catholic Church to do the same,” said Sandall.

    The earliest Canon Laws restricted women from countless ministries and actions. By 1917, they were prohibited from reading scripture, washing feet, distributing Holy Communion, and receiving holy orders. Yet, over time, canon law has changed and women have achieved every right on the canon law list except ordination.

    Besides making up 60 percent of those who attend Mass, women reportedly run 80 percent of parish ministries as eucharistic ministers and fulfill roles as lectors, parish and religious education directors, and administrators. “There should be women priests; we are already doing the work without the title,” said Ellis. “We are already ministering in all ways except celebration of the sacraments, even though in many cases we’ve prepared the people to celebrate the sacraments.”

    Despite the church’s current position, these women say they will continue to stand strong in order to give service to their call and to their faith. They remain firm with the conviction that Christ came to redeem every person because in his divinity he transcended gender for all of humanity. They say they still love the Catholic Church and love it enough to stand for the justice they believe it deserves. “We as women won’t go away,” said Sandall, “and neither will the spirit."

    The Catholic Church of the Beatitudes holds a weekly mass at 5:30 p.m. on Saturdays in the First Congregational Church, 2101 State Street. For additional info, visit beatitudes-sb.org.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law
    « Reply #1 on: September 11, 2010, 01:19:15 PM »
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  • This quote is key:

    "The earliest Canon Laws restricted women from countless ministries and actions. By 1917, they were prohibited from reading scripture, washing feet, distributing Holy Communion, and receiving holy orders. Yet, over time, canon law has changed and women have achieved every right on the canon law list except ordination."

    Liberals see all of these functions as a changeable part of the positive law of the Church.

    Neo-Caths see all of these functions as a changeable part of the positive law of the Church, except ordination.

    Traditionalists see all of these practices, not as some positive law decreed by Rome, but as Traditional practices handed down to us by our forebears in order to protect the idea that women are to be separated from the roles of the sacrificial priesthood. All of the elements Neo-Caths see as "changeable"  and fit for the garbage bin (women reading scripture, washing feet, distributing Holy Communion, serving at the altar) served to reinforce the Catholic doctrine that the priesthood was for men only.

    The Neo-Caths, in trying to split the baby, strip the Church of all liturgical practices which reinforce a doctrine, yet still try to enforce the doctrine. Add terrible catechesis and lack of any condemnation of error and those spreading error and you have mass confusion.

    Did the Neo-Caths really think the liberals would stop at girl altar-boys? The next step is female "deaconnesses". Once that is accepted, they will push on to female priests.

    The Neo-Caths have succeeded in stripping the Church of almost all of Her Traditional protections, sowing complete doctrinal confusion in the faithful, and creating the idea that the divine law is connected to some Vatican dicastery who can change it at will.

    The 1917 Code of Canon Law did not arbitrarily "make up" these rules regarding women. The Code simply re-stated the Traditional practice handed down over centuries. These practices were born out of the time tested wisdom of God through the centuries.

    A Remnant article a few months ago made the interesting case against having a Code of Canon Law at all. The author made this very point. The problem with having a "Code" with numbered rules, even if these rules were orthodox in 1917, gives the impression that these "rules" are separated from their tradition and can therefore be changed through legislation. Before the "Codes" "Canon Law" consisted of a body of Canonical decisions over the centiries based on the law of the Church and Tradition. Interesting view.


    Offline Sigismund

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    Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law
    « Reply #2 on: September 11, 2010, 04:24:01 PM »
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  • I am a little surprised that this group requires so much education for the people they "ordain".  It doesn't make them Catholic and it certainly doesn't make them priests, but maybe than can at least read.  A lot of people in the "Independent Catholic " churches can't
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law
    « Reply #3 on: September 11, 2010, 05:57:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    I am a little surprised that this group requires so much education for the people they "ordain".  It doesn't make them Catholic and it certainly doesn't make them priests, but maybe than can at least read.  A lot of people in the "Independent Catholic " churches can't


    I think they might be putting their ducks in order in requiring this preparatory training so that, in the event the Vatican "comes around" they can just accept them as priests.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law
    « Reply #4 on: September 11, 2010, 06:32:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Quote from: Sigismund
    I am a little surprised that this group requires so much education for the people they "ordain".  It doesn't make them Catholic and it certainly doesn't make them priests, but maybe than can at least read.  A lot of people in the "Independent Catholic " churches can't


    I think they might be putting their ducks in order in requiring this preparatory training so that, in the event the Vatican "comes around" they can just accept them as priests.



    The media is already calling them priests.  Well, I we won't see drastic, public, official wrecking of Church disciplines until the  fear of regular Catholics leaving for Traditional churches is gone.



    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law
    « Reply #5 on: September 11, 2010, 09:00:16 PM »
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  • If the Vatican did start allowing women's ordination, giving some insane, rambling, 50 page long modernist dissertation justifying it, it would be amazing to see just how many Neo-Caths would jump on board and submit to it out of "obedience" then write articles and books on the "genius" of it all.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law
    « Reply #6 on: September 11, 2010, 09:22:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    If the Vatican did start allowing women's ordination, giving some insane, rambling, 50 page long modernist dissertation justifying it, it would be amazing to see just how many Neo-Caths would jump on board and submit to it out of "obedience" then write articles and books on the "genius" of it all.


    Yeah, many would.  However, it hasn't gotten to the point where people like my mother and father would accept it.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law
    « Reply #7 on: September 11, 2010, 09:43:54 PM »
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  • Tele,

    The revolutionaries are too smart to jump to womenpriests.

    The next step is "deaconesses". They will refer to females named "deaconesses" in the Bible and early Church. They will sell it as women being allowed to participate in ordained ministry but not be priests. It will seem like a juicy compromise. It may take years before they wear down the Vatican, but I believe this is their next step.

    They will argue that the couple administers the sacrament on themselves and even atheists can baptize and males are not needed in either sacrament.

    This is their next step. Women readers and Eucharistic ministers got us used to hearing women talk to the congregation at Mass and touching the Eucharist. Girl altar boys got us used to females preparing the altar and assisting the priest. They are simply warming us up for the next step. Getting the faithful slowly acclimated. These people are professionals.


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law
    « Reply #8 on: September 11, 2010, 09:49:50 PM »
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  • [/u]Ungodly Rage by Donna Steichen.

     :heretic:

    Offline Roman Catholic

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    Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law
    « Reply #9 on: September 12, 2010, 03:23:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus


     These people are professionals.



    ...But they would not stand a chance with a real Pope!

    Offline Sigismund

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    Santa Barbara Women Priests Defy Vatican Law
    « Reply #10 on: September 15, 2010, 09:29:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Quote from: Sigismund
    I am a little surprised that this group requires so much education for the people they "ordain".  It doesn't make them Catholic and it certainly doesn't make them priests, but maybe than can at least read.  A lot of people in the "Independent Catholic " churches can't


    I think they might be putting their ducks in order in requiring this preparatory training so that, in the event the Vatican "comes around" they can just accept them as priests.



    Maybe.  If so they really are deluded.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir